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Re: What a cop out...
Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
(Post 8448578)
Do you really believe this? Next you will be stating it is OK to shoot Brazilian electricians on the tube.
That woman was a protestor, an agitator who was deliberately and repeatedly antagonising a policeman at a protest. Live by the sword, die by the sword. The leap to suggest that I agree with shooting innocent bystanders 7 times in the head is beneath you. |
Re: What a cop out...
Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
(Post 8447860)
Rae, you have this backwards. The officer is on trial, not the person he assaulted. Her past conduct is irrelevant. His reaction to the situation he found himself in is. Two very different things.
The police, just like all members of society, are not allowed to assault people on a whim. The police will be treated exactly the same way that a civilian would in similar circumstances (unless their name happens to be Mr. Prescott). The officer does not have special powers in this case simply because he is an officer. He has defences available to him and I am confident that he will use those defences. Whether they will enable him to avoid a conviction remains to be seen. what i said is once at trial, and in the presentation of this case before the courts he should be afforded the same advantages as anyone else, whether you agree with this legal system or not. as regard to the person making the complaint, she may not be on trial, what witness ever is? but as you yourself put witnesses are ripped apart on cross examination for a reason, to discredit them and their evidence. the defence team of this officer will not have that possibility as she will not be there, therefore any possible bearing her past may have on the trial will never come to light. |
Re: What a cop out...
Originally Posted by Jingsamichty
(Post 8448551)
In the circumstances, given the provocation, and given the woman's determination to refuse to stay back, then yes I do think the force could be considered not unreasonable - a good whack after ignoring repeated instructions to stay back.
That's why I'm disappointed that the copper is claiming the "orange juice carton" as a defence. |
Re: What a cop out...
Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
(Post 8447869)
OK. The prosecution obviously think they don't need her evidence and that they will obtain a conviction without it. If 100 people witness an incident, it is not necessary to call all 100 of them to give evidence. At some point, the evidence provided will suffice to prove a fact. The video is likely all the evidence that the prosecution needs.
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Re: What a cop out...
Originally Posted by rae
(Post 8448599)
therefore any possible bearing her past may have on the trial will never come to light.
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Re: What a cop out...
Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
(Post 8448581)
Unfortunately, that is what the police are paid to do, if they can't do it, they should not wear the uniform.
I have just watched the clip, I thought the initial slap to the face was suspect. |
Re: What a cop out...
Originally Posted by jimf
(Post 8448623)
Maybe he shouldn't but that doesn't mean it was assault. It may warrant a warning, training etc but that doesn't mean it was assault.
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Re: What a cop out...
Originally Posted by Jingsamichty
(Post 8448591)
Why do you think that I will be saying that next? :blink:
That woman was a protestor, an agitator who was deliberately and repeatedly antagonising a policeman at a protest. Live by the sword, die by the sword. The leap to suggest that I agree with shooting innocent bystanders 7 times in the head is beneath you. I have faced riots in Northern Ireland as part of HM Forces. Never did I feel the need to aimlessly hit people. The actions of the officer appear to come from frustration as opposed to genuine fear, something he is expected to be able to control. |
Re: What a cop out...
Originally Posted by jimf
(Post 8448623)
Maybe he shouldn't but that doesn't mean it was assault. It may warrant a warning, training etc but that doesn't mean it was assault.
A threat of unlawful violence is an assault. If I say to you, "I am going to punch you in the face" that is an assault. |
Re: What a cop out...
Originally Posted by rae
(Post 8448599)
but as you yourself put witnesses are ripped apart on cross examination for a reason, to discredit them and their evidence. the defence team of this officer will not have that possibility as she will not be there, therefore any possible bearing her past may have on the trial will never come to light.
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Re: What a cop out...
Originally Posted by jimf
(Post 8448623)
Maybe he shouldn't but that doesn't mean it was assault. It may warrant a warning, training etc but that doesn't mean it was assault.
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Re: What a cop out...
Originally Posted by dbd33
(Post 8448540)
I think that's probably correct. Do you think, based on what we see in video, that the policeman was using reasonable force?
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Re: What a cop out...
Originally Posted by jimf
(Post 8448651)
I think he was in a difficult situation faced with a persistantly aggressive individual with lots of noise and pushing and shoving going on around him and took steps to neutralise that threat. Given the situation he was in I don't think the action he took was completely unreasonable. Viewed now from computer/officeland it might well be considered unreasonable by some I agree.
I do find it sad that a woman who is basically a professional protestor - she is described in court as an animal rights activist - can't take the odd whack from a copper as an occupational hazard. And it's sadder still that a 47-year-old Police Sergeant is basically perjuring himself rather than tell the truth. |
Re: What a cop out...
Out of interest what happened after she was hit? Did she get arrested?
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Re: What a cop out...
Originally Posted by jimf
(Post 8448572)
It's easy for the likes of us to decide whats reasonable from the comfort of our computers. Less so for the policeman in the chaos taking place on that day.
No other officers there saw fit to assault anyone armed with a noisy gob (and a dangerous carton of juice) did they? Yes, you are right, it IS easy to judge. He was frustrated and overreacted. Should it end his career? no probably not. Should we turn a blind eye? Certainly not. |
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