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US step up war on ISIL

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US step up war on ISIL

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Old Oct 3rd 2014 | 1:34 am
  #91  
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Default Re: US step up war on ISIL

Originally Posted by caretaker
We could send boots and possibly some other articles of kit, but other than our shakey old fighter-bombers and some more advisors for Iraq I doubt we'll send much (our $20 million humanitarian aid package will likely be increased). Ultrarunner's probably already there. Government scandal over soldiers with ptsd fired rather than treated means they'd be scared to commit troops because of potential embarrassment. The armed forces and the government was in denial far too long and quite a few returned soldiers commited suicide. The US could send it's soldiers back on tour after tour after tour because they take care of them (not denying it was hard though) but the Harper government doesn't have the credibility to do that.
edit: Now Turkey is in, and that will go further than anything Canada has. Look at the article on RT about Russia's 2 year old arms sales to Iraq - the $4.2 billion sale has a bit of everything but scads and scads of SAM's which ISIS would no doubt love to capture. The Turks authorised use of their property (there's a dandy airbase in southern Turkey) so all players (Australia now as well) will have somewhere to fly from.
Where is that guy?
 
Old Oct 3rd 2014 | 9:16 am
  #92  
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Default Re: US step up war on ISIL

So the happy chubby Brit cabbie was murdered I hear. This sickens me loads as he appeared to be a really nice guy. As for the ISIS murderers, they should just keep bombing till the whole place is flat, then start over again in that part of the world !!
 
Old Oct 3rd 2014 | 3:01 pm
  #93  
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Default Re: US step up war on ISIL

Originally Posted by magnumpi
So the happy chubby Brit cabbie was murdered I hear. This sickens me loads as he appeared to be a really nice guy. As for the ISIS murderers, they should just keep bombing till the whole place is flat, then start over again in that part of the world !!
No, he wasn't a cheeky chappie....he was a man who cared enough to go to try to help.... and a father of kids, and I know you feel the same way too magnump

This is so dreadful, when can we ever foresee a time when this is going to get better?

I feel so useless, and I am sure there are many out there like me...I am not 'physically' in the position, but I would like to help in any way that I can?
 
Old Oct 3rd 2014 | 3:08 pm
  #94  
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Default Re: US step up war on ISIL

Originally Posted by MillieF
I feel so useless, and I am sure there are many out there like me...I am not 'physically' in the position, but I would like to help in any way that I can?
Well, the thing is that you're in Canada. A country which is totally insignificant and useless and which is not physically in the position to do anything at all, except possibly to help out in ways which don't involve making the problem even worse. (i.e signing up in a very very very minor way to alienating strange people even more, and thereby likely doing a great deal more harm than good to Canada's self interest and security).

These people (Conservative war hawks) never learn.

Last edited by Novocastrian; Oct 3rd 2014 at 3:10 pm.
 
Old Oct 3rd 2014 | 6:27 pm
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Default Re: US step up war on ISIL

Originally Posted by MillieF
No, he wasn't a cheeky chappie....he was a man who cared enough to go to try to help.... and a father of kids, and I know you feel the same way too magnump

This is so dreadful, when can we ever foresee a time when this is going to get better?

I feel so useless, and I am sure there are many out there like me...I am not 'physically' in the position, but I would like to help in any way that I can?
There is nothing to feel useless about. Evil happens. Even though "evil" is a human construct, the Bible explained the phenomena well. In fact the "strange people" in IS merely have a different view, and one which directly conflicts with our own. In matters of women it is largely antithetical. The problem we have is that unlike Orthodox Jews or Amish, for example, these extremists want to impose their belief system on everyone else. They are expansionist and imperialist in the way we Europeans were up until about a century ago. We have moved on, they have not. What you can do, in my opinion, is be less accommodating of religion. It's religion that fundamentally divides peoples.
 
Old Oct 3rd 2014 | 7:20 pm
  #96  
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Default Re: US step up war on ISIL

Originally Posted by Novocastrian
Well, the thing is that you're in Canada. A country which is totally insignificant and useless and which is not physically in the position to do anything at all, except possibly to help out in ways which don't involve making the problem even worse. (i.e signing up in a very very very minor way to alienating strange people even more, and thereby likely doing a great deal more harm than good to Canada's self interest and security).

These people (Conservative war hawks) never learn.
They probably feel outraged at entire villages of Kurds having their men mass executed, then beheaded for full effect; their young women detained being given the choice of marriage or a "worse fate" by refusing. The hawks might even find that the threats are credible, particularly given the terrorist incidents that have been both conducted and planned over the past thirteen years.

Do beheadings not concern you? Does an organisation that is pulling in young Western Muslims and radicalising then against their own countries not concern you? Just because Iraq II was a wrong choice (and obviously so even at the time) does not mean this IS war (or every future war) is wrong. They're not going to sit at a table and negotiate, they're not interested in plurality, they are mad people (by our terms of reference). I occasionally self-check to see if my response is hysterical, but I then look at the evidence of what they are doing, read the victims stories, listen to their rantings and realise that no, I'm not being hysterical, these people are actually as mad as they seem. Mad death cultists.

Our Liverpool-supporting friend would form a vast army of psychologists and counsellors and try and rehabilitate the well meaning militants, but I'm afraid I'm on the side of the moustachioed private investigator and want them 'defeated' (to temper my language). Indeed martyrdom is what they desire so it really will be a win win situation.

Last edited by Shard; Oct 3rd 2014 at 7:30 pm.
 
Old Oct 4th 2014 | 12:13 am
  #97  
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Default Re: US step up war on ISIL

He's entitled to his opinion, free country and all that.
The ISIS fighters aren't just a rag-tag band of bandits; they're hardcore, experienced and well equipped so they may prove to be unbeatable on the ground without a massive invasion of new troops. Look at the weeks old battle for Kobani Syria- ISIS still in control despite US airstrikes helping the Kurds and in Iraq they still control towns near Baghdad. Official reports of Iraqi victories are beginning to look like thin propaganda and I'm thinking it may be an unwinnable fight without NATO ganging up on them. This partly because Iraq still refuses to allow other Arab countries to bomb anyone in Iraq. The feeling I get from the media now is that ISIS is growing faster that the coalition opposing them, and along with the territory they capture, besides those they kill or enslave they also gain new converts and capture more and better weapons.
 
Old Oct 4th 2014 | 5:27 am
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Default Re: US step up war on ISIL

Originally Posted by Shard
They probably feel outraged at entire villages of Kurds having their men mass executed, then beheaded for full effect; their young women detained being given the choice of marriage or a "worse fate" by refusing. The hawks might even find that the threats are credible, particularly given the terrorist incidents that have been both conducted and planned over the past thirteen years.

Do beheadings not concern you? Does an organisation that is pulling in young Western Muslims and radicalising then against their own countries not concern you? Just because Iraq II was a wrong choice (and obviously so even at the time) does not mean this IS war (or every future war) is wrong. They're not going to sit at a table and negotiate, they're not interested in plurality, they are mad people (by our terms of reference). I occasionally self-check to see if my response is hysterical, but I then look at the evidence of what they are doing, read the victims stories, listen to their rantings and realise that no, I'm not being hysterical, these people are actually as mad as they seem. Mad death cultists.

.
Well of course they do (although beheading was good enough for Catherine of Aragon and Marie-Antoinette to name just two). The point is that bombing / drone attacks etc., etc., are such blunt instruments that the absolutely inevitable deaths of even more civilians are guaranteed, leading as it ever does to further outrage and revenge against the perpetrators. In this case, as in Iraq II as you put it, a ragtag "coalition of the willing" lead and in fact simply cover for the US.

Afghanistan was also a stupid mistake but at least it was a NATO lead mistake so Canada had very little choice in that case.
 
Old Oct 4th 2014 | 5:52 am
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Default Re: US step up war on ISIL

Originally Posted by Novocastrian
Well, the thing is that you're in Canada. A country which is totally insignificant and useless and which is not physically in the position to do anything at all, except possibly to help out in ways which don't involve making the problem even worse. (i.e signing up in a very very very minor way to alienating strange people even more, and thereby likely doing a great deal more harm than good to Canada's self interest and security).

These people (Conservative war hawks) never learn.
+1.2

I would say also that it's highly complex. The US, which is traditionally a significant country, is just going to get hurt again in this process. I have heard that these highly well organized thugs want a ground war - where they can lay claim to decimating the evil Westerm alliances.. The US could never win the ground war in Afghanistan, and this time i'm afraid they may not either with initial fly by attacks, and just as you say, incite thousands more to violence through maimimg/killing of innocents.

Israel bombed Gaza with no repurcussions as far as I know, from the political and economic international community. The US grapples with an identity issue, IMO, and yes those conservative hawks have taken their country down from a might perspective, all IMO, not that they would see that..
 
Old Oct 4th 2014 | 5:54 am
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Default Re: US step up war on ISIL

Originally Posted by Novocastrian
Well of course they do (although beheading was good enough for Catherine of Aragon and Marie-Antoinette to name just two). The point is that bombing / drone attacks etc., etc., are such blunt instruments that the absolutely inevitable deaths of even more civilians are guaranteed, leading as it ever does to further outrage and revenge against the perpetrators.
+1
 
Old Oct 4th 2014 | 6:06 am
  #101  
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Default Re: US step up war on ISIL

Originally Posted by Novocastrian
Well of course they do (although beheading was good enough for Catherine of Aragon and Marie-Antoinette to name just two). The point is that bombing / drone attacks etc., etc., are such blunt instruments that the absolutely inevitable deaths of even more civilians are guaranteed, leading as it ever does to further outrage and revenge against the perpetrators. In this case, as in Iraq II as you put it, a ragtag "coalition of the willing" lead and in fact simply cover for the US.

Afghanistan was also a stupid mistake but at least it was a NATO lead mistake so Canada had very little choice in that case.
Unfortunately civilian deaths are guaranteed, both there and here.
 
Old Oct 4th 2014 | 6:36 am
  #102  
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Default Re: US step up war on ISIL

Canada should become an Islamic state. It'd be much more fun than now, plus you'd get these 'bloody women drivers' off the road.
 
Old Oct 4th 2014 | 7:14 am
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Default Re: US step up war on ISIL

Originally Posted by Oink
Canada should become an Islamic state. It'd be much more fun than now, plus you'd get these 'bloody women drivers' off the road.
Would work right up until opening time down the legion
 
Old Oct 4th 2014 | 7:26 am
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Default Re: US step up war on ISIL

Originally Posted by Flogger
Would work right up until opening time down the legion
And they'd have to consider women's rights more seriously.
 
Old Oct 4th 2014 | 7:33 am
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Default Re: US step up war on ISIL

Originally Posted by Oink
And they'd have to consider women's rights more seriously.
The legion here is quite progressive. Women have been allowed in the lounge bar for a few years now. Some of the old timers moan when they do though
 


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