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Old Mar 1st 2014 | 3:41 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: Ukraine

Originally Posted by Novocastrian
Thing is, Russia also holds Germany and Western Europe by the balls on the gassy stuff. The pipeline only goes through Ukraine.
True.. although Norway could step in and replace some of that demand. They have been having somewhat of a price war with Russia over the last year or two.

Also gas demands should decrease in the coming months due to warmer weather (hopefully) and so would put less of a strain on EU reserves if called upon.

If the west allows Russian intervention then they're inviting them to establish another Soviet Union type.. Union? The Chinese would also see it as a precedent in its territorial disputes. Would also make a mockery of UN security council.. permanent member invading another country. Would be an Iraq situation again, only Russia can't pretend to be overthrowing a dictator to stop wmd's.
 
Old Mar 1st 2014 | 4:23 pm
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Default Re: Ukraine

Originally Posted by burks
True.. although Norway could step in and replace some of that demand. They have been having somewhat of a price war with Russia over the last year or two.

Also gas demands should decrease in the coming months due to warmer weather (hopefully) and so would put less of a strain on EU reserves if called upon.

If the west allows Russian intervention then they're inviting them to establish another Soviet Union type.. Union? The Chinese would also see it as a precedent in its territorial disputes. Would also make a mockery of UN security council.. permanent member invading another country. Would be an Iraq situation again, only Russia can't pretend to be overthrowing a dictator to stop wmd's.
This
 
Old Mar 1st 2014 | 8:18 pm
  #18  
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Default Re: Ukraine

Originally Posted by burks
If the west allows Russian intervention then they're inviting them to establish another Soviet Union type.. Union? The Chinese would also see it as a precedent in its territorial disputes. Would also make a mockery of UN security council.. permanent member invading another country. Would be an Iraq situation again, only Russia can't pretend to be overthrowing a dictator to stop wmd's.
Given the history of Ukraine / Ukraine SSR it's not quite the same as China invading an independent country. Particularly when there is a section of the population that is calling for it.
 
Old Mar 1st 2014 | 8:38 pm
  #19  
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Default Re: Ukraine

There are a few months to sort it out before seeding the 2014 crops; Ukraine is the breadbasket of Eastern Europe and grain production already faces enough challenges from the weather and transport inefficiency (same as here). A lot of people could be in the unenviable position of starving next year as well as freezing if this turns into war. Unlike all the other bankrupt satellites the USSR was glad to be shed of, the Ukraine is very valuable property. The easy way would seem to be partitioning off the naval base and surrounding area as a Russian territory until their lease expires and maintain the rest of Crimea as part of Ukraine with ethnic Russians guaranteed equal rights. The last thing we need in this world is another war and if anyone tries to threaten Russia's Black Sea fleet there could be a big one and they have all the tools they need to fight it right there. China just does what they want anyway; this conflict shouldn't change what they do at all.
 
Old Mar 1st 2014 | 8:53 pm
  #20  
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Default Re: Ukraine

Originally Posted by burks
True.. although Norway could step in and replace some of that demand. They have been having somewhat of a price war with Russia over the last year or two.

Also gas demands should decrease in the coming months due to warmer weather (hopefully) and so would put less of a strain on EU reserves if called upon.

If the west allows Russian intervention then they're inviting them to establish another Soviet Union type.. Union? The Chinese would also see it as a precedent in its territorial disputes. Would also make a mockery of UN security council.. permanent member invading another country. Would be an Iraq situation again, only Russia can't pretend to be overthrowing a dictator to stop wmd's.
You state "if the west allows Russian intervention..." What you really mean is if the US allows. No way is the current US government going to put a single pair of boots in harms way up against Russia.
The US will not be playing the worlds policeman for at least 3 years, for better or worse.
 
Old Mar 1st 2014 | 9:56 pm
  #21  
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Default Re: Ukraine

Originally Posted by caretaker
There are a few months to sort it out before seeding the 2014 crops; Ukraine is the breadbasket of Eastern Europe and grain production already faces enough challenges from the weather and transport inefficiency (same as here). A lot of people could be in the unenviable position of starving next year as well as freezing if this turns into war. Unlike all the other bankrupt satellites the USSR was glad to be shed of, the Ukraine is very valuable property. The easy way would seem to be partitioning off the naval base and surrounding area as a Russian territory until their lease expires and maintain the rest of Crimea as part of Ukraine with ethnic Russians guaranteed equal rights. The last thing we need in this world is another war and if anyone tries to threaten Russia's Black Sea fleet there could be a big one and they have all the tools they need to fight it right there. China just does what they want anyway; this conflict shouldn't change what they do at all.
Have you considered a career change to UN negotiator?
 
Old Mar 1st 2014 | 11:34 pm
  #22  
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Default Re: Ukraine

I'd agree with Oink, warm water bases have always been critical to Russia, all their northern bases freeze up in winter and require massive ice breaking efforts in the months prior and after winter.

Russia has always been touchy about warm water bases and have in the past demonstrated they are prepared to go the distance to secure access to them.
 
Old Mar 1st 2014 | 11:46 pm
  #23  
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Default Re: Ukraine

I'd venture a guess if any large scale war broke out with Russia and the west, the world isn't going to be a pleasant place to live for a while.
 
Old Mar 1st 2014 | 11:49 pm
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Default Re: Ukraine

Originally Posted by gozitanguygoinghome99xx
Canada Besides southern B.C, the whole country is flat, ugly and cold
Cold yes, a good part of Canada is, but I'd not say its ugly, some less pretty then others obviously, but I found parts of So. Ontario to be quite pretty, and parts of the prairies have their own beauty as well.

Pictures I've seen of Nova Scotia and New Foundland are quite nice as well.

Don't need mountains to have beauty, and plus mountains become old when its all you see for decades upon decades...lol
 
Old Mar 2nd 2014 | 12:32 am
  #25  
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Default Re: Ukraine

If they go to war Vodka prices will escalate, Vodka riots will scar the bars and clubs, we will be doomed, I look at the bigger picture and weep
 
Old Mar 2nd 2014 | 1:11 am
  #26  
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Default Re: Ukraine

Originally Posted by Jsmth321
Cold yes, a good part of Canada is, but I'd not say its ugly, some less pretty then others obviously, but I found parts of So. Ontario to be quite pretty, and parts of the prairies have their own beauty as well.

Pictures I've seen of Nova Scotia and New Foundland are quite nice as well.

Don't need mountains to have beauty, and plus mountains become old when its all you see for decades upon decades...lol
+1
 
Old Mar 2nd 2014 | 2:02 am
  #27  
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Default Re: Ukraine

Originally Posted by Jsmth321
Cold yes, a good part of Canada is, but I'd not say its ugly, some less pretty then others obviously, but I found parts of So. Ontario to be quite pretty, and parts of the prairies have their own beauty as well.

Pictures I've seen of Nova Scotia and New Foundland are quite nice as well.

Don't need mountains to have beauty, and plus mountains become old when its all you see for decades upon decades...lol
I amend my statement (I guess since i've lived here my whole life i dont appreciate the place so much ) ... With the exception of southern BC the whole country is cold
 
Old Mar 2nd 2014 | 2:04 am
  #28  
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Default Re: Ukraine

Originally Posted by Shard
Given the history of Ukraine / Ukraine SSR it's not quite the same as China invading an independent country. Particularly when there is a section of the population that is calling for it.
Yeah it is ! Ukraine has been independent for some time, has their own nationality and passports, etc... Thats like saying it's OK for the US to invade Canada because of our close history with them.
 
Old Mar 2nd 2014 | 2:05 am
  #29  
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Default Re: Ukraine

Originally Posted by Jsmth321
I'd venture a guess if any large scale war broke out with Russia and the west, the world isn't going to be a pleasant place to live for a while.
How do you think it would affect us here in Canada, or say people in the UK or the rest of the European Union ?
 
Old Mar 2nd 2014 | 2:35 am
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Default Re: Ukraine

Originally Posted by gozitanguygoinghome99xx
How do you think it would affect us here in Canada, or say people in the UK or the rest of the European Union ?
I could see it turning into a world wide conflict quite easily, Russia is not some small time player, and could easily create a huge conflict if the west starts to meddle too much.

It would be idiotic and self destructive for the US or EU to start anything with Russia.
 


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