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Old Mar 10th 2014 | 6:52 am
  #136  
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Default Re: Ukraine

Originally Posted by caretaker
One of them, proud to show off his English for the camera said "I am Russian soldier." Oops. Of course there was no doubt, if they were the world's best kept secret militia the neighbours would know them anyway.
I think by "militia" they're on about these local idiots standing around in old camo jackets. They're simply denying the existence of Russian troops altogether.

Anyway have a look at this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrain...ferendum,_1991

Which shows a majority of people in Crimea voted for independence in 1991 from the USSR. So it's pretty clear why Putin doesn't want any foreign observers knocking around in Crimea during the referendum.
 
Old Mar 16th 2014 | 10:38 am
  #137  
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Default Re: Ukraine

Well now we'll see what happens. If the reporting this morning was correct and a lot of the Ukrainians and nearly all the Tatars boycotted the polls the %80 turnout statistic smells to high heaven, but it isn't as if there was much doubt of the outcome.
 
Old Mar 16th 2014 | 11:29 am
  #138  
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Default Re: Ukraine

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe...324265163.html

I wonder whats gonna happen next
 
Old Mar 16th 2014 | 11:41 am
  #139  
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Default Re: Ukraine

Originally Posted by caretaker
Well now we'll see what happens. If the reporting this morning was correct and a lot of the Ukrainians and nearly all the Tatars boycotted the polls the %80 turnout statistic smells to high heaven, but it isn't as if there was much doubt of the outcome.
this referendum has made me laugh. there have been pics online of the booths being arranged in the colours of the Russian flag, food is being provided etc. Not that anyone is being influenced at all. Add to that the Russian propaganda and the fact that Hitler has risen from the dead and taken over in Kiev and I see no reason to doubt the results.

Other than the questionable legality and turnout figures...
 
Old Mar 16th 2014 | 11:47 am
  #140  
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Default Re: Ukraine

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-sh...130732690.html

Yeah, appeasement always works.
 
Old Mar 21st 2014 | 5:23 am
  #141  
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Default Re: Ukraine

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26686949

I find it interesting that they're uncovering all this embezzlement well into the billions, and the Russians are promising to spend $5 billion on upgrading Crimea. So it looks to me as though the Crimeans will be worse off with Russia in the long run, economically.

I do wonder whether Russia taking over the east of Ukraine might at least stop them from having a revolution every few years. Something is going to have to change.
 
Old Mar 21st 2014 | 6:45 am
  #142  
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Default Re: Ukraine

It would also be nice if the Tatars don't end up being disenfranchised, like the Kurds, the Tibetans, etc. When Yugoslavia was getting pumped full of western money there wasn't a revolution, so maybe western money can hold Ukraine together and the Russians can find a way to let the Ukrainian navy in Crimea go gracefully before it becomes any more awkward..
 
Old Mar 22nd 2014 | 10:11 am
  #143  
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Default Re: Ukraine

That "heat" map of the 1991 independence election I linked to above basically shows the situation quite well, Crimea easily had the lowest vote for independence, a bit of eastern Ukraine was also quite low but the vast majority of the country seemed quite keen on it.

Now that Crimea is gone maybe it will be a blessing in disguise for Ukraine. I can't help thinking how many wars could have been avoided around the world if the British hadn't drawn the borders.
 
Old Mar 22nd 2014 | 11:34 am
  #144  
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Default Re: Ukraine

The European map business has always been a growth industry.
edit: I would like to read a bit about Shevchenko's idea for a Slavic Federation even though it's a different world now. Maybe there is a place for a bloc between the EU and Russia.

Last edited by caretaker; Mar 22nd 2014 at 11:43 am.
 
Old Mar 24th 2014 | 4:17 am
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Default Re: Ukraine

Still can't get over the fact that the UK, a country due to hold a referendum on leaving the EU, is bending over backwards to help Ukraine get into the EU.

At the rate they're going they'll be members before Turkey, and they've been trying for ages.
 
Old Mar 24th 2014 | 4:49 am
  #146  
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Default Re: Ukraine

Originally Posted by Steve_
Still can't get over the fact that the UK, a country due to hold a referendum on leaving the EU, is bending over backwards to help Ukraine get into the EU.

At the rate they're going they'll be members before Turkey, and they've been trying for ages.
I think that should give you a clue as to which way the referendum will turn out - whether the voters choose EU or not !
 
Old Mar 24th 2014 | 6:53 am
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Default Re: Ukraine

Originally Posted by Steve_
Still can't get over the fact that the UK, a country due to hold a referendum on leaving the EU, is bending over backwards to help Ukraine get into the EU.

At the rate they're going they'll be members before Turkey, and they've been trying for ages.
Are they trying to get Ukraine into the EU though? The EU is assisting Ukraine in becoming more aligned with Western Europe, but looking at the state of the Ukrainian economy and the political landscape (corruption etc.) and they are a long way away from being able to join.

Turkey hasn't exactly got the cleanest political landscape either, add religion into the mix and it's a minefield as far as EU membership is concerned.
 
Old Mar 24th 2014 | 8:26 am
  #148  
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Default Re: Ukraine

Originally Posted by burks
Are they trying to get Ukraine into the EU though? The EU is assisting Ukraine in becoming more aligned with Western Europe, but looking at the state of the Ukrainian economy and the political landscape (corruption etc.) and they are a long way away from being able to join.

Turkey hasn't exactly got the cleanest political landscape either, add religion into the mix and it's a minefield as far as EU membership is concerned.
Err yeah. And the fact that they just blocked social networking site Twitter due to corruption allegations against their PM is shocking
 
Old Mar 25th 2014 | 6:11 am
  #149  
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Default Re: Ukraine

Originally Posted by burks
Are they trying to get Ukraine into the EU though?
That agreement they just signed is pretty much de facto EU membership, from what I read it's got more to it than EFTA membership although there is no free movement of people.

The EU is assisting Ukraine in becoming more aligned with Western Europe, but looking at the state of the Ukrainian economy and the political landscape (corruption etc.) and they are a long way away from being able to join.
Yeah, that's what stopped Romania and Bulgaria from joining, after all.

Turkey hasn't exactly got the cleanest political landscape either, add religion into the mix and it's a minefield as far as EU membership is concerned.
The reason they haven't joined is because Germany opposes it, because they're worried about having a large muslim country in the EU and having a lot of Turks move to Germany. If it hadn't of been for the recession, I reckon they'd be members by now.
 
Old Mar 25th 2014 | 6:24 am
  #150  
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Default Re: Ukraine

Originally Posted by Steve_
The reason they haven't joined is because Germany opposes it, because they're worried about having a large muslim country in the EU and having a lot of Turks move to Germany. If it hadn't of been for the recession, I reckon they'd be members by now.
The whole EU worries about that with Turkey. Although, ironically, Turkish muslims would probably moderate the devout muslims from other parts.
 


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