Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 7091027)

Clash.

How you gonna come, with your hands on your head or on the trigger of you gun?

You can crush us, you can bruise us but you'll have to answer to, ooh ooh, Guns of Brixton.

It's that sort of influence what made me a maladjusted and still belligerant immigrant.

Originally Posted by fledermaus (Post 7091130)

It rhymes if you say it with the right accent.

I think I too am too aggressive for the average Canadian.

Sorry, I don't do lyrics very often due to duff ears. Though I do look them up for "tunes" I like. Hijacking thethread though, I just saw Il Divo singing Leonard Cohen's song Alleluljah in, as the subtitles said, "A foreign language". So amused and appalled that it was considered a Christmas song and wondering if the foreign language was meant to hide its old testamentness I went a-googling. I discovered that there are 3 versions in the UK charts and 2 of them are number 1 and 2. I like the Jeff Buckley but a loyalty to Cohen bred from the misery of being a teenager makes me prefer that version. But, old testament bitterness as a Xmas hit?

Originally Posted by fledermaus (Post 7091130)

I just saw Il Divo singing Leonard Cohen's song Alleluljah in, as the subtitles said, "A foreign language". I discovered that there are 3 versions in the UK charts and 2 of them are number 1 and 2. I like the Jeff Buckley but a loyalty to Cohen bred from the misery of being a teenager makes me prefer that version. But, old testament bitterness as a Xmas hit?

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 7091144)

The Jeff Buckley version is overplayed on Radio One. I'm sick of it. I like my Christmas songs more bitter and twisted than that, Fairytale of New York is my favourite.

Originally Posted by clynnog (Post 7091153)

I don't think you are the target demographic for Radio 1

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 7091168)

Maybe not but I like dance music sometimes when driving, the floor fillers spot is pretty good. One can get much the same music on Z103.5 but the neo-con politics between the records on that station pisses me off.

I also like the spot on Radio 1 where people give a phone number to unwanted suitors and recordings of their messages are played "It's Curt. We like met in the pub and I thought you could come over for like sex and stuff".
It's a nice contrast to the World Service and NPR.

Originally Posted by clynnog (Post 7091183)

Well this thread has gone from living conditions in neighbouring estates in the NW to the current format of R1.

I'll be in Z103 land over Christmas...I'll have to tune in to hear neo-con politics....I thought they just played the latest pop and dance records 24/7.

R1 used to have this gut wrenchingly awful thing called 'our tune'...is that still on.

Originally Posted by tinytears (Post 7083848)

If I had my TWP in place I would have packed a suitcase, called the airlines and hoped on a plane to Canada.

I hate living here, I hate the midless thugs that think it is fine to terrorise the neighbourhood, I hate the local MP and the councillors who came to see us today to assure us they "are on to it" and that they "assure us" that the anti social behaviour is being tackled.

I hate that we can't protect ourselves or our property. I hate that we are innocently driving down a road and have our car egged (a couple of miles from home).

I hate that I can't sell my house because who the hell is going to buy a house no matter how beautiful it is, when there are huge gangs of hoodies drinking outside every Friday & Saturday night. I hate that we haven't had one single weekend in three years when we haven't been kept awake by said mindless thugs.

I hate that these mindless thugs have climbed our 8 foot wall and smashed up our trampoline.

I absolutely hate the fact that at the age of 12 my daughter can't have the freedom to knock on for friends or play outside, just as I give her some freedom, we are tipped off by the police that there are real issues with one boy (known to us and to them) threatening to rape at knife point little girls (the "little boy" in question is 8 years old). I hate that the police do not have the authority to deal with the child in question because "he's too young" and that social services don't believe there are any issues. I hate too that these little bastards are roaming the streets during the days as well as the nights because they are excluded permanently from school and no other school will have them.

I hate that my three kids are upstairs crying at almost 10.30 at night because the thugs are outside and they are scared.

I hate everything about living here. I hate that I can't take my mum and dad with me and my inlaws and my neices and sisters and that these mindless thugs have made my own kids feel scared in their own house.

Oh and I supposedly live in a "nice area" - we are a long way from inner city.

I'm not saying Canada is perfect but surely it has to be better than this?

And I know I'll probably get slated for this post, but do you know what? I don't care, I'm too fed up with this horrible situation I have found myself in!

Originally Posted by FlirtyKnickers (Post 7091208)

Oh god sweetheart..that no way to live.:(

I hope you get your house sold quickly....and get to hell out of there!!

Originally Posted by clynnog (Post 7091149)

Il Divo are brought to us by Simon Cowell....he doesn't really need any more money for foisting glitzy schmaltz at us.

The one good thing about the Leonard Cohen chart success is that it could help him clear some of his debts due to his manager running off with his money (I think I have that right). The #1 single on the UK charts is from the winner of X Factor (courtesy of Simon again..he really is a smug git....) and #2 single was from downloads from people who can't stand X Factor and wanted a 'cooler' version to chart. Needless to say, the #1 song outsold the rest of the top 20 altogether, so Jeff Buckley didn't really have a chance. Leonards version is at #36 I think.

Originally Posted by christmasoompa (Post 7091588)

I'm sure I've read the Simon Cowell owns the rights to Hallelujah - so he's coining it in from all three versions.

Edited to add: just Googled it and yes, his company (Syco) owns the rights apparently.

Originally Posted by clynnog (Post 7091620)

You have definately not made my day with that news....

Originally Posted by stuabroad (Post 7090643)

The point you're missing is that the chosen isolation you speak of no longer exists in the UK, certainly living in an upmarket area lessens the efffect only slightly. What we have been speaking about is a general disregard for authority and society in general. I'm sure the same is true in Canada - but you better believe it's to a much lesser extent. That was the point of the lady's post.

Originally Posted by dingbat (Post 7091771)

I did understand her post, just do not agree. A good friend is a magistrate in Beds; I had her read a few threads on here about how terrible the UK has become, as I was genuinely interested in her opinion. She laughed. She said the UK has changed, for sure, she sees the dregs after all. There are more immigrants of colour and East Europeans, which is most people's real issue, if they were actually honest. Her only comment was that people convince themselves that what they see is as a result of mayhem and anarchy - it is the mood of the country, not necessarily rooted in fact. No one I know in the UK (and have known for over thirty years) reports anything like I see reported on here. Bearing in mind I am from one of the frequently derided council estates, most of my life long friends do not live in upmarket areas, including the magistrate above.

To suggest that there is no way that you can isolate yourself from the undesirables in the UK, is likely true due to the lack of space in most areas. I am moving to a relatively cheap area in the North East; no one I know there reports rampaging hoodies and crime through the roof. The general disregard for authority is really no different here, there are just less people in a bigger space and poor press coverage of their antics! Try sitting through youth court on a Friday morning, as I frequently have to. These kids know there is little that can be done to them, they get slap on the wrist, get out and off they go again. One kid who microwaved a neighbours dog did not even get charged, because the PC brigade kicked in with excuses for the little muffin. Within twenty four hours he had done a B&E and trashed a house, and was arrested high on drugs for shoplifting.

Originally Posted by tinytears (Post 7091279)

Thank you so much, I hope so too, feeling more positive today because it is pouring down outside which normally means that the oinks stay away (admittedly not all the time but this is very fine rain that gets in your bones and the streets seem quieter than usual).

Have a lovely Christmas and enjoy the snow, I'm very jealous!!

Originally Posted by dingbat (Post 7091771)

I did understand her post, just do not agree. A good friend is a magistrate in Beds; I had her read a few threads on here about how terrible the UK has become, as I was genuinely interested in her opinion. She laughed. She said the UK has changed, for sure, she sees the dregs after all. There are more immigrants of colour and East Europeans, which is most people's real issue, if they were actually honest. Her only comment was that people convince themselves that what they see is as a result of mayhem and anarchy - it is the mood of the country, not necessarily rooted in fact. No one I know in the UK (and have known for over thirty years) reports anything like I see reported on here. Bearing in mind I am from one of the frequently derided council estates, most of my life long friends do not live in upmarket areas, including the magistrate above.

To suggest that there is no way that you can isolate yourself from the undesirables in the UK, is likely true due to the lack of space in most areas. I am moving to a relatively cheap area in the North East; no one I know there reports rampaging hoodies and crime through the roof. The general disregard for authority is really no different here, there are just less people in a bigger space and poor press coverage of their antics! Try sitting through youth court on a Friday morning, as I frequently have to. These kids know there is little that can be done to them, they get slap on the wrist, get out and off they go again. One kid who microwaved a neighbour’s dog did not even get charged, because the PC brigade kicked in with excuses for the little muffin. Within twenty four hours he had done a B&E and trashed a house, and was arrested high on drugs for shoplifting.

Originally Posted by stuabroad (Post 7092325)

I hope you will update as to how your expected and actual experiences compare a few months from now. Best of luck to you also. :D

Originally Posted by dingbat (Post 7092591)

I will be happy to - whether I am proven right or wrong. I have to hope that things will be OK, I have one escapee adult daughter already there, and a son who refuses to stay in Canada beyond the spring. The other kids are much younger, and if I screw up by going back, not only will I have to live with my mistake, so will they. :eek:

Originally Posted by dingbat (Post 7091771)

The general disregard for authority is really no different here, there are just less people in a bigger space and poor press coverage of their antics!

Originally Posted by tinytears (Post 7083848)

If I had my TWP in place I would have packed a suitcase, called the airlines and hoped on a plane to Canada.

I hate living here, I hate the midless thugs that think it is fine to terrorise the neighbourhood, I hate the local MP and the councillors who came to see us today to assure us they "are on to it" and that they "assure us" that the anti social behaviour is being tackled.

I hate that we can't protect ourselves or our property. I hate that we are innocently driving down a road and have our car egged (a couple of miles from home).

I hate that I can't sell my house because who the hell is going to buy a house no matter how beautiful it is, when there are huge gangs of hoodies drinking outside every Friday & Saturday night. I hate that we haven't had one single weekend in three years when we haven't been kept awake by said mindless thugs.

I hate that these mindless thugs have climbed our 8 foot wall and smashed up our trampoline.

I absolutely hate the fact that at the age of 12 my daughter can't have the freedom to knock on for friends or play outside, just as I give her some freedom, we are tipped off by the police that there are real issues with one boy (known to us and to them) threatening to rape at knife point little girls (the "little boy" in question is 8 years old). I hate that the police do not have the authority to deal with the child in question because "he's too young" and that social services don't believe there are any issues. I hate too that these little bastards are roaming the streets during the days as well as the nights because they are excluded permanently from school and no other school will have them.

I hate that my three kids are upstairs crying at almost 10.30 at night because the thugs are outside and they are scared.

I hate everything about living here. I hate that I can't take my mum and dad with me and my inlaws and my neices and sisters and that these mindless thugs have made my own kids feel scared in their own house.

Oh and I supposedly live in a "nice area" - we are a long way from inner city.

I'm not saying Canada is perfect but surely it has to be better than this?

And I know I'll probably get slated for this post, but do you know what? I don't care, I'm too fed up with this horrible situation I have found myself in!

Originally Posted by Yogi-Bear (Post 7100539)

I can't understand why you would think your post would be slated? You're only telling the truth and how it's a living hell for and your children..

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 7100554)

No, she's generalising her hell to include the whole country.

Originally Posted by dingbat (Post 7091771)

I did understand her post, just do not agree. A good friend is a magistrate in Beds; I had her read a few threads on here about how terrible the UK has become, as I was genuinely interested in her opinion. She laughed. She said the UK has changed, for sure, she sees the dregs after all. There are more immigrants of colour and East Europeans, which is most people's real issue, if they were actually honest. Her only comment was that people convince themselves that what they see is as a result of mayhem and anarchy - it is the mood of the country, not necessarily rooted in fact. No one I know in the UK (and have known for over thirty years) reports anything like I see reported on here. Bearing in mind I am from one of the frequently derided council estates, most of my life long friends do not live in upmarket areas, including the magistrate above.

To suggest that there is no way that you can isolate yourself from the undesirables in the UK, is likely true due to the lack of space in most areas. I am moving to a relatively cheap area in the North East; no one I know there reports rampaging hoodies and crime through the roof. The general disregard for authority is really no different here, there are just less people in a bigger space and poor press coverage of their antics! Try sitting through youth court on a Friday morning, as I frequently have to. These kids know there is little that can be done to them, they get slap on the wrist, get out and off they go again. One kid who microwaved a neighbours dog did not even get charged, because the PC brigade kicked in with excuses for the little muffin. Within twenty four hours he had done a B&E and trashed a house, and was arrested high on drugs for shoplifting.

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 7100554)

No, she's generalising her hell to include the whole country.

Originally Posted by tinytears (Post 7100559)

I'm not sure why I thought it would be slated, possibly because there are a few "characters" that sometimes don't hold back their opinions :eek:

The problems are too great to deal with all at once, there is no accountability, there is too much red tape, the police are under resourced, there is absolutely no way of dealing with these problem familes. The police call in social services, social services won't act as they want to keep families together, the kids are left to roam causing trouble, asbo's are taken out but there is no way of really "punishing" these kids, the families get moved on but more families take their place, a little bit harder and a little bit rougher than the last, the ones that have been moved cause trouble in the "new" area those that move into their places cause trouble here, they all get moved again and so it goes on and on and on, it is like we and they are trapped in some sort of merry go round because they aren't dealing with the problem only moving it and in the place more come in that are also trouble and had been moved on.

I just want out now, I think it will take generations to fix these issues if they can be fixed at all.

It has to start with a proper funding of the police force, proper powers to deal with the problem kids, less beurocracy, less paperwork, more action. Then and only then will there be any improvements.

Originally Posted by tinytears (Post 7100562)

Crap - where did I say it was the whole country? I can only talk about our hell, and the issues facing us.

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 7100683)

If it boils down to your living in a nasty part of the UK and not liking it then fair enough. If you move to a nasty part of Canada you won't like that either. I thought you were making a more general point about the UK vs. Canada. Have you considered moving to a nicer part of the UK?

Originally Posted by stuabroad (Post 7090643)

I think you'll be rather surprised in that case upon your return. I have had the luxury of living in an area considered to be highly affluent in NW England - 'isolated' to degredation by looking on the outside. However *some of* the public school educated kids are even worse than their inner city comparisons. The point you're missing is that the chosen isolation you speak of no longer exists in the UK, certainly living in an upmarket area lessens the efffect only slightly. What we have been speaking about is a general disregard for authority and society in general. I'm sure the same is true in Canada - but you better believe it's to a much lesser extent. That was the point of the lady's post.

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 7100683)

If it boils down to your living in a nasty part of the UK and not liking it then fair enough. If you move to a nasty part of Canada you won't like that either. I thought you were making a more general point about the UK vs. Canada. Have you considered moving to a nicer part of the UK?

Originally Posted by Yogi-Bear (Post 7101430)

Why on earth would she consider moving to a nicer part of the UK? When she's already said:

"She can't wait wait until she reaches Canada?"

Plus, under every post she's posted on here is does say:

"Target Moving date July 2009!"

Y :confused:

Originally Posted by tinytears (Post 7101436)

Because he is a wind up merchant, that is all, read back through all his posts, he is just highly entertaining that is all!!

Originally Posted by tinytears (Post 7087680)

I think very cheap booze/drugs is only part of the issue. The other part is that we are in to third and fourth generation "oinks" - those that have never worked, that think that see "gangs" as "family" where you have half a dozen kids with half a dozen different dads none of whom have any involvement in the children's upbringing, it is a complete and utter breakdown of society and family.

We were talking to our local community police about this and if they pick these kids up off the streets, some of whom are as young as 8 or 10 and take them home of an evening, the parents/mother is rarely there which means that the police effectively end up "babysitting", something they just don't have the resources to do so they don't pick them up or send them home anymore because there is no "home" to go to.

In typical "tinytears" style, I have just been crying whilst reading an interview with Rhys Jones's mum in the news of the world, for those that don't know Rhys was shot whilst walking home from his football training by a gang member who was targetting another gang member. One of the things that resonated so hard with me is this:





That is exactly how our estate is. And that is why I fear so much for my kids, we are literally trapped between two warring gangs, one from the estate behind and one front the estate in front and yet our estate is lovely, new, clean, full of hard working families.

On another note Karen Matthews who was just put away for kidnapping her own daughter once called Shannon a twin and yet I was completely baffled because none of her siblings were being listed as the same age. Turns out she thought that because Shannon and her brother had the same FATHER it made them twins.

Sadly this is the problem with the UK, in many places (NOT EVERYWHERE) there has been such a massive break down in society, in family and in values that I can't see how it can ever be fixed. This is third and fourth generation now and it is completely engrained into them now. I went to school with a girl who at 13 got pregnant, her daugher went on to get pregnant at 13, making my friend a grandma by the age of 27. Her granddaughter aslo got pregnant at 13 meaning at the grand old age of 40 my friend is a great grandma. Of course all these girls had more than one child, this is just the eldest of each. There isn't a father around for any of them, no permenent men and I think that there are something like 6 or 8 kids at each generation. It absolutely shocks me to the core when I see this "girl" because our lives went down such different paths. Is it choice, is it circumstance, is it breeding? I don't know, I do know that when I have seen her in the past and we have chatted that she thought it was fabulous that she was "raking in so much money" by having all these kids - maybe that is to do with it, but really what chance do they all have and all her kids and her grandchildren and now great grandchildren?

You just have to watch Jeremy Kyle every day to see how far society has broken down.

Sorry this turned into such a long post but I do think it is more than just drugs or booze, though those are contributory factors that's for sure, but it is the breakdown of society and family. These kids are turning to the gangs for a sense of family and a sense of belonging. It makes me so sad and so angry in equal measures.

Originally Posted by tinytears (Post 7101436)

Because he is a wind up merchant, that is all, read back through all his posts, he is just highly entertaining that is all!!

Originally Posted by tinytears (Post 7101436)

Because he is a wind up merchant, that is all, read back through all his posts, he is just highly entertaining that is all!!

Originally Posted by Yogi-Bear (Post 7101404)

Also, consider this.. Ask anyone in the Uk if they know of anyone who has had their car stolen, house broken into, or some form of criminal act aginst them in the last 2 years..

I personally know of 4 people, and Christmas eve, we were all stood in our village pub, and when you think that we represented 000000.04 of the population of the Uk, and we'd all been the subject of a crime inside two years!

I think on that statistic alone tells you something!

Y

Originally Posted by dingbat (Post 7103196)

Everyone I spent Christmas with this year, had been the victim of crime in the last two years, including a murder in the family. Oh I forgot, that was here, in Hicksville Canada

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 7103221)

Meanwhile, here in NB people continue to leave their cars outside the stores, with the windows open; shopping and other belongingsvisible on the seat, keys in the ignition etc etc presumably unconcerned about theft.