Tonight
 

If I had my TWP in place I would have packed a suitcase, called the airlines and hoped on a plane to Canada.

I hate living here, I hate the midless thugs that think it is fine to terrorise the neighbourhood, I hate the local MP and the councillors who came to see us today to assure us they "are on to it" and that they "assure us" that the anti social behaviour is being tackled.

I hate that we can't protect ourselves or our property. I hate that we are innocently driving down a road and have our car egged (a couple of miles from home).

I hate that I can't sell my house because who the hell is going to buy a house no matter how beautiful it is, when there are huge gangs of hoodies drinking outside every Friday & Saturday night. I hate that we haven't had one single weekend in three years when we haven't been kept awake by said mindless thugs.

I hate that these mindless thugs have climbed our 8 foot wall and smashed up our trampoline.

I absolutely hate the fact that at the age of 12 my daughter can't have the freedom to knock on for friends or play outside, just as I give her some freedom, we are tipped off by the police that there are real issues with one boy (known to us and to them) threatening to rape at knife point little girls (the "little boy" in question is 8 years old). I hate that the police do not have the authority to deal with the child in question because "he's too young" and that social services don't believe there are any issues. I hate too that these little bastards are roaming the streets during the days as well as the nights because they are excluded permanently from school and no other school will have them.

I hate that my three kids are upstairs crying at almost 10.30 at night because the thugs are outside and they are scared.

I hate everything about living here. I hate that I can't take my mum and dad with me and my inlaws and my neices and sisters and that these mindless thugs have made my own kids feel scared in their own house.

Oh and I supposedly live in a "nice area" - we are a long way from inner city.

I'm not saying Canada is perfect but surely it has to be better than this?

And I know I'll probably get slated for this post, but do you know what? I don't care, I'm too fed up with this horrible situation I have found myself in!

Re: Tonight
 

hope you get to move on soon:thumbup:

As you say nowhere is perfect but it has to be better than what you have just described.

Good luck and best wishes:)

Re: Tonight
 

Where do you live out of curiosity?

Re: Tonight
 

My heart goes out to you, and I don't think I have the words to make you feel better.

I hope you manage to sell soon Karma sent.

Re: Tonight
 

Thanks for posting, you reminded me of why we wanted to move. Something I lose sight of when things get tough here.

We had bottles and eggs thrown at the house, one bottle went through the window, cars were trashed, you didnt feel safe just walking to the shop in the dark.

I sympathise with you and hope it all works out in the end.

Re: Tonight
 

id like to find out where you are to

because with your description of that place it sounds like i live next door to you

Re: Tonight
 

Thank you, I'm feeling a little calmer getting it down and out iykwim?

North West but I don't want to be more specific because I'm having issues with our Attorneys and I don't want to be identified on here. Sorry that sounds like a real cop out but I have been getting help and advice on how to deal with the Attorneys and I need to keep the annonymoty for now.

Thank you, I do think that we will end up giving the keys to the bank, we won't be able to sell, we have absolutely no chance really, there are dozens of houses for sale within a quarter of a mile and we have the problem with the kids outside. I doubt we would even be able to rent it out, these thugs have made the house worthless.

Thank you, I will no doubt go back to this post when we get over to Canada to remind myself when I'm "homesick" that actually this is no "home" it is a prison of sorts, one that costs us a lot of money each month!

Thank you though. I take it you have found a big improvement there, this is what I'm clinging on to, I have to believe it is going to be better or I fear for my sanity, really I do.

Re: Tonight
 

No my next door neighbour wants to go to Florida lol. Even the police round here are all leaving to go and live in spain, the Chief Inspector, the Inspector and the community police officer all have plans to move away.

Re: Tonight
 

At a complete tangent, does your name come from the Tindersticks?

Re: Tonight
 

No it is the name my sister and all her friends used to call me at school because I was always crying!

And now I keep crying at the thought of leaving my family here behind so it seemed apt that I ressurect the name here!

Re: Tonight
 

Ah. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZE9yGJSb1Q

Re: Tonight
 

I googled them before, that is brill but have to say I'd never heard of it before!

Re: Tonight
 

There's problems with youths in urban Canada too - but it's nowhere near as "in your face" as it is back in the UK, I've not seen any groups of youths hanging around drinking etc (probably too hot or too cold the majority of the time). I've not had any abuse from youths in the street just for the hell of it either.... You'll be better off here on that regard for sure...

Re: Tonight
 

The area that we are going to seems to be OK, it was one of the main things we looked at and there were kids hanging around but they weren't threatening, they seemed to be friendly, they wanted to talk to the kids and seemed OK. I don't recall seeing anything threatening, we went into central Toronto at night and I personally was nervous because I wouldn't go to the city here but I didn't feel threatened at all.

Re: Tonight
 

I like them. Other compelling tracks are "Rented Rooms" and "Travelling Light".

Re: Tonight
 

OMG Tinytears, I read your thread and I cannot believe that people in this day and age, and in the UK can live their lives like that!!!!

I can tell you that the "youth" was the reason that we moved here to Canada 7 months ago. And I can also tell you that they are NOT the same here in Canada!!!!

I have found kids to be polite, respectful, and never answer back to elders!

I have had conversations with teachers here and they all LOVE their jobs. I have told them stories of how teachers in the UK are leaving in droves and they just can't believe it.

Just keep your head down now girl, it will all be over soon.

Have a safe xmas....:)

Re: Tonight
 

In Toronto you need only be cautious of the downtown east, say Jarvis or Sherbourne streets, and parts of the suburbs. As a tourist you're not likely to wind up in a dodgy suburb.

Re: Tonight
 

Have to say the youth we've encountered here have been really pleasant, even communicate with our two very young children - never seen that in Europe.

The adults are really nice and friendly too, so I guess the good behaviour just gets passed down?

Re: Tonight
 

The first time I took the kids skating to our local outdoor rink in Edmonton, I was sorting my little girls skates out and a couple of lads in their teens just took over and helped my lad. Then they saw that I hadn't done my daughters up tight enough and did hers too.

I was so shocked, they were great with them (then 6 & 4).

We are now in Sherwood Park, I am not nieve, I know there are the 'little sods' out there but it is no where near the level of the UK.

This is certainly a better place to raise a family. :thumbsup:

Fingers crossed for you Tinytears, we lived in Leeds for 6 years and remember it well!!!

Linda

Re: Tonight
 

This is so good to hear because we wondered whether we were looking at it all through rose coloured glasses, when we came over for our recci, where were hit by how polite so many people and the kids seemed to be, we went to the park attached to the school the kids will hopefully go to and the kids came over to talk to my three, they were all polite, friendly and my lot wanted to go back in with them (they aren't babies either and are old enough to know better). We ended up letting them go there most days by themselves and yet to that point they hadn't even played outside the front here. First time we let them wander on their own we sneaked along behind them but by the end of the second week we had no doubts that it was safe for them to do so.

Thank you for sharing, it really helps.

When we were over we got hopelessly lost when we were downtown and asked directions, someone actually drove us to the DVP which was about 10 minutes out of their way and then they headed back to where we first met them, we couldn't believe people were so friendly. Obviously there are going to be bad eggs everywhere but I just want the kids to grow up in a safe(r) environment, we had a night of nightmares when the kids eventually settled last night and I am exhausted.


I'll bear that in mind, thank you.

Thank you, you have made me feel so much better. I hate that we feel like this in our own home, we have "better" periods but not much better and it feels as if we are literally trapped in a nightmare.

I'm really glad you posted this, it has lifted my spirits somewhat.

Re: Tonight
 

Thank you everyone for replying. The police knocked on at about midnight (great that will definately make us a bigger target for the kids in the future) although of course they had gone by then. My nerves were that shot that I fell asleep at about 3am finally, although the younger two kids both had nightmares so it was a very disturbed night. :mad:

We have our local MP and councillor coming to spend the evening with us after Christmas, so we will see what they say then. Apparently though there is some sort of undercover operation going on and things should improve "drastically" within the next two weeks - yeh right!

I just hate it here and am literally counting down until we leave.

Re: Tonight
 

Are you sure your moving for the right reasons?

I mean so far it really sounds like the only reason you want to move to canada is because you hate the uk.

Re: Tonight
 

There are lots of reasons we are going, law, order, society, standard of living, different way of life, I have several siblings there, uncles, aunties, nieces, nephews, my parents are moving out there (though not quite yet), outdoor life, opportunities, to give the kids every possible opportunity, financial reasons. There are loads of reasons to go, the only reasons to stay is that I am leaving family behind, my father in law doesn't fly and that will be difficult but we haven't just suddenly thought hey lets up sticks and go on a whim, this has been planeed for many years.

Nowhere did I say ever that the ONLY reason I was moving is because of these little bastards, although you are right I do hate it here.

Re: Tonight
 

Sorry its just you only really mentioned push factors instead of pull factors and I genuinly feel that pull factors should be stronger than push factors.

I'm moving to canada because of all the friends I made there whilst on an exchange program. I dont like the UK but I dont hate it, its just I have a better life in canada. Going out making films, going on road trips or just hanging out.

What part of canada are you moving to?

Re: Tonight
 

It's ok, I'm tired and touchy today!!

It sounds really cool what you are doing. We are moving to Toronto which is probably a little bit more suburban than I would like but it is where our family is and that is important to me. My uncle has a property on a lake and we will no doubt spend a lot of time there with the rest of the family. Eventually thought I would love to move somewhere quieter but probably not til the kids are all grown up.

I also think moving to the suburbs would make us feel less isolated, the kids are already booked into summer schools and so on so hopefully they will have a fabulous social life, this is what we are after really.

Re: Tonight
 

That sounds cool, though to be honest, if your in toronto you're really not that isolated. I'm moving to Regina, sasketchewan most of my friends come from towns that have a popultion of 1000 or below now thats issolated.

If your really, really worried about youth crime, those are the best places to go because everyone knows who you are and who the kids are which makes it impossible for them to do anything bad.

After living in sasktechewan and then going to toronto I really didnt like it but that might just be me, its not one size fits all.

Re: Tonight
 

If it was just me and my husband and if we were younger with no kids, I'd love to go to somewhere really remote but I think that the choices we have made as a family are probably best for us as a family.

Where we want to go there is a very young and vibrant family based community with lots and lots of things to do for kids and that is our dream really, maybe when the kids are grown we will retire out somewhere quieter which is my dream.

I'm actually really excited again today. We have taken the for sale sign down today so it ceases to be a big red rag to ranging bulls, although of course the house remains on the market.

I just can't wait to go, I think it is the waiting that is the worst part of this whole thing, because life feels on hold.

Re: Tonight
 

Just to, once again, stick up for the UK - the kids around here are also polite, respectful and never answer back. My children go out and play in our street and we have no problems, have never come across a 'yob' in my life. I know I've said this before but have to say it again, not all kids in the UK are bad and there are still some areas where kids are pleasant and law abiding!!

Tinytears, sorry to hear you've had such an awful time. Must be terrifying for you. :(

Re: Tonight
 

Had a bad day eh! Keep your chin up you will be here soon. I know it doesnt feel like it at the moment but things will improve. Thoughts are with you, best wishes. :)

Re: Tonight
 

I have friends and relatives in places like Tetsworth, Chinnor, rural Cambridgeshire, rural Cheshire, rural Derbyshire, Dunfermline etc and they seem to match your description. I also have relatives in M/CR, outskirts of Liverpool, Sydenham and they tend towards the OP descriptions (although not quite as bad as her description).

You're more likely to get chavs/yobs etc in Moss Side versus Esher and Weybridge.

Re: Tonight
 

The difference is, to be able to live in a "nice" area in the uk, with a decent sized house, requires you to earn £100K a year.....

Re: Tonight
 

Disagree. We lived in the Cotswolds before coming here and didn't earn anything like that amount.

Re: Tonight
 

Oh there is good and bad everywhere but we are living in a "nice" suburb that is sandwiched between two run down areas that are full of third generation kids who's parents have never worked, they themselves are excluded from schools and there seems to be no where for them to go, so many of the young girls now have babies and they are no more than 13/14. Sadly it is these elements of our society that are ruining for the rest. Where we are we live in a nice estate, we work damn long hours, our kids are taught respect for each other and for adults yet outside our own front door all the values that we hold close and dear is being eroded away by a bunch of nomads that think it is fine to drink, scream, swear, kick in the cars, chuck beer cans all over the place, fling eggs at the house, pull up trees, smash plant pots, etc etc. It is a minority, but unfortunately the minority have ruined our small part of society for the majority who live here and who work hard and want the best. Unfortunately it seems that we are being penalised and targeted by them because we care for and respect our property and surroundings.


Thank you so much.

We aren't in Moss Side, we are in a "nice" area, the councellor that came to see us yesterday said there is a growing problem in the area because so many of these youths are now excluded from school and have asbo's but what is happening is that they are just being shifted around the area, moving the problem back and forth, we had a few quiet months but then they have been evicted again and ended up back close to this area where they were evicted earlier in the year. There is no way to deal with them and that is the problem.

We live in a "nice" area - not the nicest, we moved about a mile away because we could get more house for our money (what a mistake that was) and whilst we don't earn £100K a year, we have our own businesses and work very hard and very long hours for what we have and we are proud of that, it is our lifestyle choice.

Re: Tonight
 

Yea, but you probably bought when property was cheap.... it's not anymore (for now at least)...

Re: Tonight
 

I disagree too.......we live in a "nice" area without the yobs, 4 bed house and have never earnt that amount!

Re: Tonight
 

Is the house worth less than £300K then?

Re: Tonight
 

No, it's probably worth about £400k in the current market, had it valued at £460k last year.

And before you say it, we don't need to earn £100k a year to afford it (know you were about to!), as we bought it for £275k 4 years ago and only had a mortgage on about 40% of that.

Plus there are plenty of yob free areas that are far, far cheaper than around here, we only live here because it's where we grew up and all our family are still here which was important to us when we started our own family.

If your point is that only expensive areas are yob free, I respectfully disagree. We have friends all over the country and they also live in nice, lout and crime free areas, and a lot of them are much, much cheaper than where we live.

:)

Re: Tonight
 

We could only afford a 3-bed semi in a reasonable area and I had a decent professional IT job. Here, the house we are renting is the same value (£120K), except it's detached, has probably 3x the usable space of our house back in the UK and a pool....

It wasn't lout ridden by any means, but I did used to see groups of youths hanging around drinking cider etc....

Re: Tonight
 

Just out of interest, whereabouts was that?

Fair enough but hope you understand why I had to comment after your statement that anybody wanting a decent sized house in a decent area had to earn £100k a year - when we managed it on a third of that income!!

:)

Re: Tonight
 

An ordinary market town in the midlands...

Yea you managed it, but you wouldn't get the house you have now if you was to start from scratch today.... Not without that £100K salary.... That was my point....