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Was it more balls? Why didnt he shoot the bear?

Was it that he didn't have a license to shoor that sort of bear? $1000 fine and possible criminal charges.

But what do I know, I didnt watch the link.

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Mike, Hunters do not hunt other people. I think you are confusing hunters with gangs, (it's the guns isn't it?). The best part of hunting is the social aspect with your friends and of the hunt itself and not the "killing", in the same way that the appeal to sky diving is the fall, not the "landing". I would agree with you about a morality issue if North Americans were hunting endangered tigers for their magic penis.

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Please show me where I have claimed that people that hunt are evil or that I am morally superior? I expressed an opinion that the person in the video did not exhibit "nerve", I still believe this to be the case. You don't, fair enough.

The ferociousness of the animal has to do with the nerve, not the act of hunting. I cannot imagine a skilled hunter ever needing to exhibit nerve. If sufficiently skilled, the animal will never know what ended its life.

I guess that I have killed enough people (in armed conflicts) not to get on any form of high horse about morals. Sure, people have been killed by black bears. I would hazard a guess that some hunters have been killed by black bears - does that make me admire them? No. Should they care about that? Definately not.

I just don't see the point. I don't care for the animals being hunted as I am sure that compelling arguments can be put forward as to why they should be culled. I don't care if the hunters eat them or leave them for scavengers.

I just don't see the point in hunting. I don't see the point in fishing either, but lots get great enjoyment out of both activities.:thumbsup:

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The link with a picture appears when you are just scrolling up and own through messages. Clicking a link that redirects you, and had I wished to view the video, I would have made a deliberate decision to make sure that he was not around.

Yes my son does fully understand where meat comes from and relucatntly like ouselves has come to the conclusion that it is a necessery evil (turn of phrase, not calling anyone evil). He has come to this conclusion entirely by himself, without any prompting by us. He also fully understands that since an anminal had no defense against a high powered rifle with telescopic sight, the hunt is not exactly a fair contest.

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There would be much less of an issue if we had not encroached on their natural habitats.

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I wish I could have put it like that :thumbsup:

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So why not use some kind of dartgun,or whatever technology can come up with to record a pseudo kill?

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Such as Canada?? I'm talking of 2 hours from Toronto.

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Maybe I was thinking of another poster when I called you out on the moral thing. Although you did seem to hint at people who hunt should kill each other back on the first page.The thing about the guy in the video is that he did not shoot the bear, even when the bear was 8 to 10 feet away and looking directly at him. Black bears average about the same size as an African lion and wild animals are very unpredictable when startled at close range. Most people including hunters would have lost their nerve and shot. This guy did not shot and that was my point and also the fact the hunters in general are not out for blood at any cost.

Too many reasons to list. First being the issue of eating them alive, etc,

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Clearly you have never jumped out of a plane......... landing counts just as much as the drop!

and killing as social ?

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One thing that we have learned from this thread is that bear, although sometimes eaten, is quite clearly something that should not be eaten both on the grounds of taste and health issues.

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2 hours from any major city is generally well into the natural habitat of wildlife rather than man.

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like I have said before there are always two sides to a discussion - none is right as oer the other opinions but for wiw...... and I wait to get slated as to WHY here but...

I can't wait to kill my first buck, would love a Caribou on the wall to go with the deer that are already there and would be super proud of myself if my first kill dropped the animal in its tracks.

Why, firstly because it would show i've practised enough, secondly because I can get close enough to said animal without being detected (wind direction always a pain) and thirdly because I would find it exciting as hell.

These may seem dumb reasons to the anti hunting brigade and we can give as many reasons as to why they need to be culled as there are against why not (think on that the next time one runs out and lands on yer hood) - but ultimately its a legal sport and I can't wait to do it. And thats my stance :thumbup:

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You missed the point. You don't jump because the landing is the best part, otherwise you would jump off the roof of your house. My point with the "social" part of the the hunt is the get together and the beverages and venturing into the wilderness with friends. But if you insist yes hunting has a very very very long social and cultural tie with humanity that has lasted for tens of thousands of years and across every culture on earth and the end result is the death of an animal, quite like farming. I think complaining about the death of a non endangered wild animal is illogical and hypocritical. Think about that the next time you are paying to enjoy a meal at a restaurant. Live and let live ;)

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Good for you, and good luck. As you say, it's a legal to do. Those who disagree with hunting have that right and the choice not to do it. Those who smoke or drink alcohol also have the right to do those things, yet they're harming themselves. I'm sure those would be even less likely to be banned than hunting as the government makes a damn sight more in taxes from them than from hunting, though I'd hazard a guess that hunters cost much less in medical expenses.

For those who advocate target shooting or paintballing as an alternative, paper doesn't taste good and isn't a good source of nourishment, and I believe cannibalism is illegal in Canada so eating your fellow paintballer is out. I'd also suggest that the cost of hunting a deer, carving it up and transporting it home is probably much cheaper than the equivalent amount bought retail (though I could be wrong).

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Fledermaus - I try my best but am not a right wing militant veggie - I went veggie as I didnt like meat and then continued from there.

re the calcium etc. . . when I was pregnant the drs tried to force me onto iron tabs asuming I was anaemic as I was veggie- I refused until my bloods proved it- they never did~ !

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I have read this thread with interest and whilst I don't get hunting at all like a few on here, I have no problems with people hunting for food (like others feel its better than factory farming). If animals need to be culled, not sure what I think, but I cannot get why you would want a caribou on your wall! They are in decline, are kind of struggling and I have no idea why killing one would be an achievement to boast about!

Gryph

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I was never anaemic either, everything was fine until I got old, and then the calcium became a problem, so watch out for that please!

I understand what you mean about not liking meat, the texture used to do it for me. I still won't eat seafood, clams, mussels etc. that just grosses me out!

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I'm not sure about the interior decor aspect of this either. Eeek

MMC can you explain when you can and can't take the head or antlers as a trophy? I was at someone's house for dinner, a moose he had shot, and when we asked where the antlers were he said that you aren't allowed to keep them?? Is is that you pay more to be able to keep a trophy? What about the bear/beaver/fox furs? What happens then?? Any ideas?

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My issue is with the hunter coming up with hundreds of reasons why its everything but the kill that they do it for, when if that was true there are many better ways of achieving that aim

The reality is they are lying to themselves and others about their primitive blood lust

I think they all do know why they do it, just that they don’t like the reality of it being bandied around as it makes them appear to be a little lower on the social evolutionary scale to their counterparts

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Mike, you're missing one fundamental point to reinforce the social-bonding aspect of hunting. If it were all about the kill, then a day's hunting that didn't result in a kill would be a failure, and cause for disappointment. How is it, then, that a group of buddies can go out into the boondocks on a hunting expedition and have a great time despite never getting a whiff of their prey?

A good day's hunting is absolutely not all about the kill. Sure, there is some primaeval instinct to do with provision of food which you are obviously sophisticated enough to have suppressed in yourself, but - as has been discussed endlessly here - the provision of food is not the primary purpose of a hunt in Western civilisations. Supermarkets can fulfil that need much more simply.

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I disagree I believe that the social bonding aspect of hunting is more about likeminded individuals being together

The key bond being the desire for a kill, the fact that a day can go past without meeting the desire in no way break the group bond because it likely they be able to meet that requirement next time

A day’s hunting may not be all about the kill, but being a hunter is about the Kill

An analogy
I sometimes go paragliding and the day is blown out, but I often have a good time talking with colleagues about other more successful days or social things the day isn’t disappointing because it’s expected that some days just won’t work out…. But my primary reason is the flying otherwise I just wouldn’t be there

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That I don't know????

When you see antlers displayed they are either as a result of collecting sheds in late winter or because the cost of mounting a head is more so they don't.

I know basically anything that is in our house if you kill it you keep it, it is up to you whether or not you get it mounted.

Most people who shoot a bear will get it full body mounted or make it into a rug (this can cost thousands and takes around 2 years to get done).

You can have the furs made into whatever you want - completely down to personal choice, or full or partial body mounted.

Hang on though am at work at the mo will just go talk to some of the guys out back to see what the issue is with the horns, antlers of the moose :confused:

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Hey Fled just checked and the general concensus is that the guy is pulling your leg.

There are no stipulations as to not keeping the horns, you wouldn't shoot a trophy bull moose and mount it without its rack! So if there are no signs of antlers at all its probably a female, if there are little stubs then its just a baby not something that should have been shot.

On that note it may well have been the first moose he shot with a bow or something - so could well be a cow and therefore as his first would be something he would want to keep as a trophy!

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He's been hunting all his life, so not the first he had killed. The family have a barn set up where they skin and butcher the animals they have killed. I doubt that he was pulling our legs either. All I could think of was that you may have to pay more to keep a trophy and as they hunt for food then they hadn't paid that money. This was in Northern Ontario, maybe different regs?

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Can I just say that some hunts last for a good 10 days, so if you are out after something particularly hard to get, then there is every likelihood you will come back with nothing.

A very good friend of mine shot nothing last year but had an awesome time with the guys even so.

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By all means

Your comment in no way surprises me, the harder it is to achieve your goal the less likely you will be disappointed with failure..
None of these thoughts conflicts with my rational, people hunt because they enjoy killing
The fact they feel better when doing this in a group environment is easy to understand
The fact that they can get more pleasure from going for the more complex and difficult animals and that here is pleasure in the process and build up isn’t a surprise, but in the end the process is completed with a kill, it could have been a photograph, but it isn’t, the desired end result is a dead animal

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No when you apply for a tag (so when you hear a hunter say they have been been drawn for a bull moose) you get A tage for what you applied and paid for.

The tag is attached to the animal when you have shot it and its yours to do whatever you want with, be it eating or mounting.

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Oh go on, this thread could do with a little levity.

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They have moose in Wales?

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And this could all go horribly wrong as well.

But on a more serious note, I can sort of get my head around people going out purely to hunt for food (and that specifically excludes bear). I would however hope that the true food hunter would have the decency not to keep the parts of the unfortunate animal that are not eaten as a trophy.

The bonding experience is a valid point although I am sure that there are more humane mathods of bonding with your fellow man. Somebody did mention alcohol as part of the bonding experience. Hmm, guns and alcohol sounds rather redneck to me.

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Seems logical, otherwise why not just go hunting with a paintball gun - same bonding, camaraderie etc.

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Of course it's ultimately about the kill, but the kill is not the only thing. As I suggested in paragraph 2 of post 135, you can't very well take home a fellow paintballer for the cooking pot or freezer, can you?

In parachuting, the drop is the most important part of the event, but not the only part. I doubt parachutists get the same enjoyment without the company of like-minded people.

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But it is the key critical part which separates hunting from other outdoor pursuits

and it the one part hunters spend a great deal of time glossing over, by talking about how they care about the animals, its more humane than farming, how they care about the environment, that its really a social pastime... (Which I find fascinating and also insightful too)

When deep down they know they are just one small step above the sick child that killed his pet for pleasure

The fact they do it in a social environment allows them to share/deny the collective guilt of giving into to their more primitive urges towards violence against the defenseless

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I think you're wildly overstating this whole enjoyment-of-killing thing. I expect there is a very small minority of people who go hunting for whom the act of killing gives them some sort of thrill, but from everything I have read and from all of those people I know who hunt or shoot, the strongest emotion when confronted with the moment of pulling the trigger, or loosing the arrow, or whatever means you use, is one of respect for your prey and satisfaction at having achieved the goal. Many people have said they feel somewhat queasy immediately following the kill, hardly a feeling you'd associate with machismo or the enjoyment of death.

I can't reconcile your comment "the desired result is a dead animal" with your assertion that hunters enjoy the act of killing. There's no correlation between the two. I can want to shoot a deer dead so that I can eat venison through the next few months; that doesn't mean that I enjoy the act of killing the creature.

As I said earlier, I haven't partaken of a Canadian-style hunt. In the UK I did work as a beater for a couple of shoots near my parents' place when I was a teen. The "bag" was pretty much unimportant to real enthusiasts; the only people who went on about the number of birds they'd shot were the city types down for the day throwing their money around and playing the country squire. Even there, though, it was much more about bragging rights over one's proficiency with a shotgun rather than taking any particular pleasure in the death of the fowl.

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That's way out of line.

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Hunting is about a pleasurable form of killing animals !!!!

That statement may be rather blunt and rather 'in your face' but not out of line

Why is it so hard to accept that people get pleasure out of killing?

I used to do a lot of judo and I definitely got a lot of pleasure slapping my fellow man hard to the ground and winning
The ultimate fighting is another area where ‘civilized’ people bay for blood like they were at a roman arena and others actively participate and enjoy nearly killing each other
I struggle more with the fact that hunters seem to deny that they function on this primitive level and attempt to deny the kill factor

Otherwise why not rock climb, paraglide, parachute jump, hike, pothole, mountaineer all demand a skill and knowledge of nature and some putting your life in your hands as you bet against mother nature

What really separates the hunt from these…….

Or is it just that many are not willing to be honest enough to admit that they enjoy playing the role of a predator

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There's a world of difference between predation of prey species for food and the killing of a family pet for pleasure. In the first, the "primitive desire" is for providing food and the killing is a necessary by-product of that desire. In the latter, it is the taking of life itself that provides the pleasure, with no other aim. If you cannot discriminate between those two situations, there's no point in continuing this discussion.

I maintain that your equating hunting with killing a family pet is way out of line and you should withdraw the remark.