Re: Something that will no doubt spark controversy....
 

SORRY! Wrong thread :S

Re: Something that will no doubt spark controversy....
 

huh??

Re: Something that will no doubt spark controversy....
 

Depends where you go, the big cities offer all manner of noodle variants and things on sticks.

Re: Something that will no doubt spark controversy....
 

reminds me of Terry Pratchett books - Rat on a stick . . .

Re: Something that will no doubt spark controversy....
 

I'm pretty sure I had that in Malaysia.

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Ah, you are a fan of "Cut-Me-Own-Throat" Dibbler. I think he also moonlights at the cafe in the ground floor of the building where I work.

Re: Something that will no doubt spark controversy....
 

Thank you Mr Dibbler. Sausageinnabun - one Ankh-Morkpork dollar to you, and that's cutting me own throat.

[Damn. Too Slow!]

Re: Something that will no doubt spark controversy....
 

I'm not quite sure I understand what your point is, in that case. You're against factory farming, and you're against people hunting where factory farming and supermarkets predominate. What are we to do when we want to eat a dead animal - hotfoot it to the nearest organic farm-gate shop? Not really a practical alternative for many urban dwellers. If they're going to head off into the wilds, they may at least make it a memorable trip by stalking a prey beast while they're out there. It seems you're trying to have your cake and eat it, here.

Define "necessity." I can see the argument against sport hunting when it's for the trophy rather than for the pot, but pretty much every poster on here has commented that Canadians tend to eat what they've killed on the hunt. Eating, I would say, is a necessity. For sure, there are alternative sources of meat, but it's been well pointed out by others on here that wild prey probably lives better than its farmed counterpart, and (in my anecdotal experience) tastes better too.

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Much more so than most people think. Only a few would go to Flesherton for milk but I think a lot more people would go and buy animals at the farm if they knew how easy it is, farmers these days have telephones, fax machines, some are even web enabled. Half a day in the car isn't a huge investment of time if you pick up a sheep from one place and half a cow from another.

Re: Something that will no doubt spark controversy....
 

If you could get more people to do that it would be fab - but (and many apologies to city dwellers on here as this is a generalisation) many want the convenience of niopping to the shop for a pound of beef.

If I told you we had half a 4H beef last year and is only just running out now - all made up by the butcher into whatever - joints, steaks, sausage, hamburger meat - the works.

Thats why we have the cows this year (3 now) 2 to sell when fattened and 1 to butcher for possibly a couple of years worth of meat.

At an outlay of $40 per calf (or was it $30 :confused:) and 6 months worth of feeding it a bit (good pasture out here), its well worth it to us.

I would whole heartedly recommend anyone to even go halves on a 4H beef and stock up your freezer, saves time, money and I don't know why but you kinda feel part of the whole process of the reason it was born and raised if that doesn't sound daft.

Re: Something that will no doubt spark controversy....
 

I would indeed prefer that we all went down to the nearest organic retailer and put the factory farmers out of business. Sadly the economics of food production will never make this viable. I would however prefer that once the unfortunate battery animals have been killed that they are at least eaten rather than discarded due to the excesses of North American food consumerism. Some Canadians may very well eat what they kill, but can you find one who has not enjoyed the process of killing the animal, be it the hunt or the act of pulling the trigger itself? There is plenty of affordable food available through other means, so this is not necessery.

The video that was posted in plain evidence that North Americans (I don't care to find out whether the SOB who shot the bear was an American or Canadian) get a kick out of killing purely for the sake of killing, unless I am mistaken and bear is on the menu here.

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Yup you actually can eat bear although quite tough

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Maybe so but I fear until those farms also sold everything else people buy in their weekly convince shop then it would still be a minority and then only if that half cow was fully butchered and packed off into meal sized bags, very few will want get it home cut it up and then freeze it,
I would also find it interesting if many would want to purchase that much meat in bulk either
how long does half a cow last a family of four?

Re: Something that will no doubt spark controversy....
 

Oh dear, I can't make up my mind as to whether or not I am even more offended now :unsure:

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Interesting but one significant downside for wild meat is its quality
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/article901410.ece
It’s not a smart choice to eat bear or any other predator

But then nobody said hunters were smart

Re: Something that will no doubt spark controversy....
 

After two years the two and a half of us haven't finished the half cow, we have bought more beef in the interim though. A sheep, by contrast, doesn't last two months. We buy the meat butchered, btw, the farmers have arrangements to format the meat as required.

Re: Something that will no doubt spark controversy....
 

Only an IT guy would phrase it this way :)

Re: Something that will no doubt spark controversy....
 

mmmm I could also counter that arguement by saying is everything sold in the shops neccesarily safe?

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Ah, so your objection is purely from some Puritanical thou-shalt-not-have-fun perspective? What's wrong with enjoying yourself while fulfilling some necessary function? Do you think the same way about sex and procreation?

For myself, I don't think enjoyment would be the right word to describe the emotion on the act of pulling the trigger - perhaps satisfaction would be more appropriate - but enjoy a day's hunting, the whole process from the preparation up front to getting out on the ground and identifying, tracking, stalking your prey through to the kill? Yes, I think I probably would.

I can't watch the video you keep referring to while I'm at work, but I suspect from your comments that it is some gung-ho hunter crowing over a kill. That's not typical of the hunters I know.

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I see we are never going to agree. Never mind, it's half the fun.

Re: Something that will no doubt spark controversy....
 

Agreed. It shouldn't be the killing that provides the pleasure, but rather the satisfaction of having succeeded in the "quest." And the admittedly rather primitive pleasure of having provided meat for yourself and your family.

Absolutely - it's nice to have a civilised debate on an emotive subject without resorting to name-calling. Thank you!

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Significantly safer than some of the parasites and diseases you'll run across in the wild
Antibiotics in food maybe aren't as ideal as food without them, but it’s still safer than the food with the bugs that the antibiotics were there to stop

Just consider the data that suggest that organic foods is measurably riskier in terms of food poisoning than industrial farmed foods, it become a toss up between pesticides or bugs but at least both need to meet minimum food hygiene standards, the few hunters I know have very little understanding or awareness in this area and as a result I don’t eat the meat they’ll so willing offer up
I'm dam sure very few hunted animals are butchered in a safe hygienic way

Re: Something that will no doubt spark controversy....
 

WhooHoo !! We have agreed on something.

Re: Something that will no doubt spark controversy....
 

I still stand by what I called the guy who shot the bear.

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Good for you for using the makeup, so many veggies are only interested in what they eat, and not the whole picture.

Wine arnd beer are tricky, do you/does one refuse the drink if it isn't made with non animal finings? That used to torment me! I used to be a veggie, but became a born again carnivore. One reason was that I realised that just not eating meat was only part of the picture, that the argument about if we didn't need meat to eat then who would keep cows, sheep, pigs etc? What would happen to the wild animals when they were culled? would they just rot and waste?? Another reason was needing more calcium for my bones, and the main reason was adopting a different approach to eating. ie trying to buy local food, organic if affordable, and having a varied diet.

Re: Something that will no doubt spark controversy....
 

nobody has to have the same points of view - and on a subject such as this its not going to be very often that opinions are changed.

What is good though is the amount that can be learned from both sides :thumbup:

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Where the heck do you think organic food comes from? It comes from organic farmers who sell it to the retailer.

I'm pretty sure that hunters do enjoy what they do or they wouldn't be doing it, would they?

I don't recall the bear getting shot by anyone, American or Canadian!

I'm pretty sure that before the advent of antibiotics, we humans had a lower rate of population growth due to sickness, and had built up a tolerance to some of the lesser illnesses. Survival of the fittest.

Nowadays it seems like we get ill at the slightest thing.

I suggest watching the video again! I didn't see anyone fire a shot.

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As you can tell, I just don't get it.

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I'm glad you said that.I thought it was just me:o
Watched it twice,thought I was missing something.

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Think of jumping out of an airplane with a parachute or bungy jumping with a cord around your feet. You also underestimate how quick bears are. The bear smelled the air right before it walked over and looked right at him but it was a young animal and that is why it lived. You would have brown underwear.

Re: Something that will no doubt spark controversy....
 

I don't have a problem with hunting. But then, I grew up in a house with a hunting rifle under the bed, and with a father who regularly went on hunting trips with mates (and sometimes took me along).

Hunting is necessary in NZ because we have so many pests that destroy native birds and flora. I know less about it in Canada, but my feeling is that most hunters I've known have more respect for the animals that die to give us meat/clothes/etc. than your average person toddling off to the supermarket to by a cling-wrapped piece of chicken.

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I have parachuted (HALO) and bungie jumped. I have also shot at things that were shooting at me and managed all without soiling my underwear.

If the bear was a grizzly, I might have agreed with you. People have been known to kill black bears with their bare hands and, if you have ventured into the wild over here, you must be aware that the recommended course of action to take when attacked by a black bear is to fight back. A black bear is much more likely to run away than it is to fight. That's why I made the comments I made above.

Re: Something that will no doubt spark controversy....
 

If anyone wants to see something scary (hunting related and a definate kill involved so will not post a link here to it) then it was the time Jim Shockey took the golfer (can't remember his name) out hunting and the biggest bear just appeared in front of them.

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I take it you didn't watch the video before you twice said the bear had been shot. Of course Billy Bob was dresses in camo, one is hardly likely to stalk an animal dressed like Bruno. Google 'Don't assume' and you'll find a good explanation.

Of course you don't get it, but at least watch whatever you're making negative comments on first.

I had to watch it again too, as Posidrive twice insisted the bear had been shot. Now he tells us he didn't watch it after all.

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I respect my boss, but I don't often get the urge to go out and kill him :)

Surely there is enough violent death on this planet of ours without needing any more.

Although I can sort of respect the hunter in this one instance for not shooting the young bear, where does he draw the line?

I'd also be sort of interested on the hunting fraternities view about what should happen to a bear or other animal if my some chance it does manage to turn the tables on the hunter. Would it then be chased and further hunted down as a menace?

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Firstly I had no desire to watch an animal being killed which was the implication of the post with the video clip and the reality was not made any clearer by the text in the post. OK, I apologise for making assumptions, but gun plus bear in an image makes for quite a reasonable assumption.

It might have also been considerate if a link has been posted that did not preview the image. My son who is also an animal lover walked up behind me while the image was on the screen and I only just cleared the screen in time to prevent him seeing it.

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I think some people here are being rather naive about this. A few years ago the Ontario MNR cancelled the Spring hunt. This is when bears are usually an easy target; sleepy, hungry. Since then the number of bears has increased and it's not uncommon to hear people talking of seeing them when out walking. One was seen in the middle of a local town, walking across the front yards. What do you imagine would happen if no bears were killed??

Do you think it would be all disneyesque with cute bears eating honey and runny away from tabby cats??

edited to add
http://www.ontarioblackbears.com/Spring_Bear_Hunt.html
http://www.ofah.org/Bear/Reinstate.cfm

Re: Something that will no doubt spark controversy....
 

I guess you understand adrenaline then, and people don't typically volunteer to fight black bears any more than they do grizzlies or polars. People have also been known to have been killed by black bears. So now your argument is not about the act of hunting so much as it is about the fierceness of the animal itself. Deer are not fierce either. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._North_America

Here is another video (2 bears killed, one on purpose, no blood or guts)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZnsL7-UdGc

You don't have to like or understand, but don't claim that because people hunt they are evil and that you are morally superior.

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I actually think it takes more balls to sit there and not shoot at the bear. I guess you don't let your kids watch Roadrunner or Daffy Duck cartoons either. There's certainly enough violence in those, though unlike real life the characters always get up and walk away afterwards.

If you'd clicked on a link without a picture then your son could still have seen it.
Does your son know where meat actually comes from (and I don't mean Loblaw's), or does he not understand that the cute cow in a farmers field is next months dinner. I think all kids are animal lovers, and I certainly still am. I love beef, pork, lamb, chicken, duck and rabbit. :thumbsup:

Re: Something that will no doubt spark controversy....
 

why not !

for 90% plus of hunting it fits I wouldn't go so far as evil, but I lump it in with an extreme form of bullying or a similar mentality

If its the stalking then use a camera, if its adrenaline then I can list a huge list of sports that will give you that and more

If its the thrill of the Kill then he is morally superior