Zoe Bell

hair straighteners

(Gah , and I resisted this thread for sooooo long!!)

Alan2005

I fold my toilet paper before wiping my arse. Apparently some freaks scrunch theirs up instead... smh.

dbd33

If not religion, what drives irrational belief?

iaink

Why is the age or appearance or viability outside the womb of a fetus at all important?
The only difference as I see it is in the marketing. A blob of cells is easier to sell for the pro-choicer, an 18 week mini human is a godsend to the anti abortionist.

We all know that the likely outcome for that feotus, be it 5 weeks, 12 weeks, 25 weeks old if left alone in the custom environment of the uterus, is more than likely going to involve diapers at some point.

Sally Redux

That question could just as easily be asked of the people sending the flyer.

Shard

Plenty of other things: mental illness, mysticism, lack of education, alcohol!

iaink

Psychosis, Chemical imbalances, Ignorance? Who knows.

Its easy to pin all this on religion, especially as an atheist or agnostic. Its much harder to recognize the good things and acts of charity that spring from faith from the outside.

There are lots of religious people, some do wonderful things guided by their faith but its no surprise that as in any large cross section of the population a percentage of them are nuts.
There are lots of irreligious people out there too and the same exact thing is true, many of them do wonderful deeds and some are nuts.

Take away religion and people will still be petty, prejudiced and power hungry, thats the real problem. Religion just reflects humanity.

iaink

Yes, it could. Its marketing, like any flier.

Shard

In that case, why have religion? Why the middleman?

Sally Redux

Indeed. People will still have the good traits as well as the bad without it. In fact I would say they would have considerably less prejudice.

As for 'power-hungry', the Catholic Church hierarchy is not exactly humble.

iaink

Because for one all attempts to ban it have ended in more pain suffering and hatred than if they had just let people gather together and believe what they wanted.

You cant use logic against faith, because its based on faith, not hard evidence.
You cant use force against faith, because its seen as a test of faith.
You cant use the law against faith, because any laws are secondary to those of the faithful.

So just learn to peacefully coexist, live and let live.

I would agree with you that its an outmoded thing now. Our understanding of the universe we live in can explain many of the mysteries of life and death that people used to turn to the church and "god" to explain for their own comfort and peace of mind. But we are not starting with a clean sheet and faith and religion are features of the last several thousand of years of human development and wont suddenly disappear overnight (and one shudders to think what might fill the vacuum left if they did)

iaink

It was kind of my point that pettyness and power are as much a feature of church doctrine as in secular life.

There would be just as much prejudice, it would just be under a different flag.

Oakvillian

was "godsend" a deliberate choice of word? Bravo, if so... and thank you, too, for not using the weasel words "pro-life" to describe anti-choice anti-abortionists.

"if left alone" is just the point, though, isn't it. If a foetus is not viable outside the womb, it cannot reasonably be supposed to have human rights - as is in fact the case under the laws of Canada. Inside the womb, it is entirely in the pregnant woman's purview and nobody else should have a right to interfere. And while "more than likely" is perhaps a reasonable reflection of third-trimester pregnancies in a modern medical system, it's still far from unusual for miscarriages, stillbirths and other traumatic terminations to take place right up to term. Assuming that an 18-week foetus will carry to term with no medical intervention required is a bit of a stretch, and really silly in the case of a 5-week pregnancy.

The pregnant woman, who does have rights (in this country, at least) is finding it harder and harder to exercise those rights because of the views, more often than not influenced by religious beliefs, of administrators and politicians in several provinces.

Shard

That's such a cop out. Iain, you're not by any chance an ostrich are you?

Sally Redux

So again, religion is not achieving any improvement.