Siouxie

Clearly you haven't experienced being terminated without cause in an non-unionised job in Ontario.. luckily for you.. (unlike a family member)..
Only expense to the employer is the standard termination or severance pay.. which could be as little as 1 week! Nor it seems have you been the recipient of a 0 hours contract here (yes, they exist in Ontario too).

I didn't say pieces of paper for a mortgage - I said piece of paper to obtain a job - i.e. certification.
Yes, there are mortgage lenders who can be a little more flexible (not necessarily charging higher rates) but if you aren't earning sufficient funds to be able to qualify financially (according the the Government requirements on income to loan ratios) nor have sufficient income to pay a mortgage that is higher, what would be the point?

dbd33

There are lots of family houses in Point Grey for three million but that's the trade off. If you have only three million you can move out there or wait for the perfect moment to buy in Kits.

Siouxie

For city read Town, village, or any small area where people live.

For anyone who hasn't had to struggle living hand to mouth, month to month because they can't even get a damn job in a fast food restaurant let alone a job that pays a decent living wage, they won't understand.

dbd33

I have. I went to the Labour Board. "Did they give you holiday pay?" I was asked. I didn't know what that was and was thrilled to find I was eligible for two weeks pay and 4% of my gross earnings in employment. My subcontractor was less thrilled when the same happened to him but then he was a senior manager fired for having a heart attack and I was a junior programmer fired for, allegedly, parking on the grass.

Dismissal in Ontario is really no bother for the employer. That's a good reason for contracting.

scrubbedexpat091

You ever been to BC?

There is really not many if any commutable and affordable options left, cheaper sometimes but not necessairly affordable, so even semi-skilled healthcare jobs paying $25-$30/hr really at that wage you have no options to own anymore, and commuting is largely by car and gas is expensive so commuting may simply not be economically viable either.

Abbotsford is about as far as you can go and commute, its 75km east of Vancouver, 150,000 people, no direct transit access to Vancouver, if your a Monday to Friday 9-5 worker with weekends off the West Coast Express from Mission (20 minute drive) might be an option, but if your a shift worker who works at a Vancouver area hospital, working weekends, holidays, evenings, overnight, car is your only option, but that will cost a couple hundred a month in gas + parking and the commute may not be economically viable.

Still need a low 6 figure household income to buy in Abbotsford these days as well, so if your a 80,000 year household, Abby is no more affordable.

Median household income in Abby is 72,000 per year, median home price close to $850,000.

Kelowna is 4 to 5 hour drive from Vancouver, median home price 900,000 with median household income $75,000 and Kelowna is not a big city, its only about 132,000 but it attracts a lot of wealthy retired boomers who sold their houses in the Lower Mainland, so if you younger and working in Kelowna, houses are just as out of reach there as Vancouver now.

So here an aerial view of the Lower Mainland & Fraser Valley. The yellow line with arrow pointing west is what I consider to be the realistic area for commuting by transit, if you make enough to afford to commute by car you could go further east, but I am basing the commuting on use of public transit. (the yellow line make not be in the exact perfect place, its kind of hard to tell from space where things are exactly but it gives a rough idea, sky train also currently only goes as far as Surrey, so Langley commuting by transit requires at least 1 maybe more bus rides to get to sky train.)

As you can see by the red line commuting from the south isn't doable since its a different country, to the west is the ocean and to the North are mountains not suitable for developing along with more water to the north.

You may realize that Vancouver is no Toronto and commuting options are rather limited compared to Toronto.

The Lower Mainland & Eastern Fraser Valley this fairly small chunk of land is where 50% ish of the entire population of 5 million reside.





When I lived in Ontario, I was in Port Hope but with Via Rail the commuting options even from there was better, we have nothing similiar to cooridor service that exists back east in Ontario, no GO system equivelant and such.

Mordko

Its quite a bit more than the statutory minimum, particularly for older employees. Employers make an offer which is quite a bit more than the minimum (if they know what they are doing). An employee goes to an employment lawyer (or he can) if he does not think its enough. The harder it is for an employee to find an alternative job that is equivalent, the larger the compensation. On top of that employers have to make extra payments to the province.

scrubbedexpat091

I wouldn't say it's that difficult nor expensive in BC to fire someone, its actually rather easy and not expensive either, infact give working notice and no severance pay required.

I have never worked anywhere in BC that was shy about terminating employment.

Mordko

No but I know exactly what’s involved in letting a non-unionized employee of a large company go and how much it costs.

dbd33

This is something I have done while owning a company and routinely do for a medium sized financial institution where I consulted and am now an employee. We don't even think about it. A recent typical example was a developer, someone who had been there for 18 years and had a salary of 90k. "Do you want to learn technology x?" I asked, he said no, so I disemployed him. It's just a matter of filling in an online form entitled "Onboarding/Offboarding" and they're gone that day, access cut off, paid out at the statutory minimum.

I guess it's like pensions, if you've been an employee for 30 years you have a defined benefit pension and a degree of security, less than that and you're dog shit.

on edit; I just checked, someone at a job grade such that their salary is less than 100k can be fired by a manager, there's no need to fetch anyone in power or to consult with HR. Even getting an employee a company phone needs a higher level of approval than firing a person. I think it has to be a myth that losing the unwanted is costly.

JamesM

If the employee is more life schooled they will come back with an employment lawyer. With 18 years they will likely be entitled too far more than the statutory minimum. The courts are increasingly striking down the attempts of employers to lock themselves into minimums during contracts.

Mordko

I’ve done it too but with HR. Can’t imagine anyone being let go without HR unless its a contractor. The devil is in the detail. Size of the business is important. And the type of contract. I don’t have experience with IT professionals. Maybe your company has low payroll and specific low severance clauses (which may not be enforceable).

A typical decent size engineering company would offer double statutory minimum to the youngest low salary employee (easy for him to find an alternative job at the same level) and go up from there. And it depends on having similar employment options available elsewhere; as you become older and more senior severance escalates. Companies which don’t like spending money on lawyers prefer to make good offers. And like I said, severance isn’t the only cost to the company.

JamesM

One month for each year and if they are much older, in a management position or directly headhunted it can be more severe.

scrubbedexpat091

Maybe that is why it seems companies like to reorganize and refresh every few years, don't want people sticking around too long.

One thing I have learned in the lower end jobs, is there is no such thing as job security, and its basically imposible to get more than the minimum, chances are you wont even find a lawyer willing because there isn't enough, maybe why low wage and high wage earners don't see the world in the same light when it comes to job security, there really is none at the lower end, and it;s incredibly easy to rid yourself of employees.

dbd33

Contractors, of course, come and go all the time. I did have one instance of someone being dropped and then taking legal action claiming that, as a de facto employee, he was entitled to compensation. That's exactly the opposite of the legal/tax position most contractors and clients want to take, hence many clients time limiting individuals. I guess you can find a lawyer who will argue most anything.

Mordko

Yep. Sounds about right.