scrubbedexpat091

Hamilton is an excellent example of the domino effect that occurs.

Vancouver appears to actually be worse than I even thought, I thought one only needed 150k income, but seems Vancouver you need closer to $200,000 which seems pretty difficult for majority of households in Vancouver considering the city say's only 30% of households earn over 100,000 so needing 200,000 household income to buy seems most households cannot afford to buy today, only 7% of households fall into the 150k to 200k range, and 8% fall into the over 200k range.

Oh look even Abbotsford, BC needs $162,000 income, and it's not exactly a top notch city with amenities, they don't even have good public transit, median household income in Abbotsford is also lower than Vancouver, so seems even the so called "affordable" city's are really not affordable for a large segment of society.

Kelowna $130,000 also a good chunk above the median household income of $68,000 per year.

Looks like St. John’s, NL would be our best bet, but its a little far away and NL has pretty subpar supports compared to BC.

scrubbedexpat091

Metro Vancouver and Fraser Valley see gains of up to nearly 32% over the past year.

Benchmark price for a detached home in Metro Vancouver in September 2021 $1,828,200 and in Fraser Valley Real Estate Board $1,362,220. (note: Surrey while in Metro Vancouver, is not in the Vancouver Real Estate Board, but Fraser Valley Real Estate board.)

20.4 percent increase from September 2020 to September 2021 in Vancouver Real Estate Board and 31.9 percent increase between September 2021 and 2021 in Fraser Valley.

13.6 percent decrease in sales in September 2021 vs September 2020 in Vancouver Board and a 10% decrease in sales in Fraser Valley in Sept 2021 vs same month in 2020.

https://www.straight.com/news/prices...es-of-up-to-32

spouse of scouse

My husband's comment after watching a program on TV about house hunting in Vancouver - "I didn't realise Vancouver was so expensive. They looked at a house that was $1.1 million and it was crap! $1.1 million for that!" And off he went, shaking his shocked little head.

scrubbedexpat091

There are a couple nice 1/2 duplexs listed for 1.1 and 1.2 million, but these seem to the the 2 least expensive freehold even though one you don't own it in full from the sounds of it.

But you can see why so many have no hope in ever owning, only hope is to win the lotto, maybe I should start, can't win if you don't play, small chance, but better chance at winning the lotto than houses ever being priced realistically.


This appears to be the cheapest still, its a weird listing though, no financing available, 875,000 and from what I gather you own only 1/3 of the land, seems 3 houses on 1 lot, but I dunno but its the cheapest house.

1,249,000 I assume its land value only mostly due to the lack of actual photos of said house, and the selling point seems to be great holding property, house needs lots of TLC or tear it down and build a new one, so probably safe to assume the house is crap.


Seems maybe Perth, Australia is a little better, at least better looking homes for less money and seems household median income is a bit higher in Perth as well, 95,000 AUD vs 80,000 CAD in Vancouver (about 87,000 AUD$)

No idea where this house is, but looks like a rather nice house.

https://www.realestate.com.au/proper...erth-136790306



End of the day wages too low, housing too expensive both to own and rent.

Moses2013

I wouldn't say there is no hope and it just depends on your priorities. You can pick examples all over the world and even when I look at these 2 properties in cities like Barcelona & Dublin, you might feel the house in Vancouver is a bargain compared to these:-). We own property around 1 hour and 2½ hours away from these places and would get the feeling it's impossible to buy if we focus on these prices and locations.
Barcelona:
Apartment: https://www.idealista.com/en/inmueble/93162984/
House: https://www.idealista.com/en/inmueble/94028355/

Dublin
House: https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/detache...lin-13/3451560
Apartment: https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/apartme...blin-4/3561004

Although it might seem impossible, there are still maybe alternatives in Canada.

Mordko

Houses are assets and investments. That’s how people use them. QE and below zero real returns on bonds or saving accounts make all the other assets attractive. Which is why housing prices are up across the world rather than just in Canada. Clearly it’s sustainable at the current interest rates. The proof of the pudding is in the fact that people are buying houses.

Things may change if/when interest rates go up. Or prices might go up as the government pours more taxpayer money to incentivize buyers.

Siouxie

It's not necessarily a case of making choices about priorities - it really depends on your ability to be employed at a decent rate of pay to be able to get a mortgage in the first place - priorities when you are living on the bread line are few and far between.. - eat or pay bills / rent! Additionally, there is zero job security in Canada and without a few pieces of paper (i.e. certificates) it's often difficult to find or achieve employment at a rate of pay that would enable you to obtain a mortgage to purchase property in many cities. Those who are in receipt of disability can't easily move to another Province where prices may be lower (not necessarily affordable) because the disability payments are Provincial, not federal.

Examples in Canada are relevant to people who live here.

Mordko

Job security depends on individual and his/her contract. It's very expensive to terminate an employee, at least in provinces like Ontario and when compared to the US.

In Europe - it depends on the country and, again, on the individual. Many people are forced into temporary employment contracts which provide zero security.

Ease of obtaining supporting pieces of paper for a mortgage obviously depends on ones employment but don't they have mortgage lenders who charge higher rates but are very "flexible" on requirements?

dbd33

It's not usual to employ people anymore, it's more common to put them on zero hour contracts, so the cost of firing is no longer a concern. I recently had someone ask not to be hired as an employee but as a contractor specifically because he wanted to buy a house and house buying really isn't an option for employees (I'd say these days but that was already true when I bought my first house). I was amused that the house is to be in Brantford or Woodstock which apparently are now part of the GTA.

Mordko

The plural of anecdote isn’t data. Statscan has data. The percentage of independent/self-employed contractors in Canada is 15%. The rest are employees. And I am going out on a limb here but employees make up the most of those buying houses in Canada.

jandro

The property examples from Barcelona are on par with Vancouver prices I'd say. The tiny apartment is probably even more expensive than a similarly priced apartment here in downtown Vancouver. However, the properties in Dublin seem cheaper in price for a similar property here. I saw a new-built house in Point Grey, Vancouver in 2013 on an average size lot with houses on either side going for over 10 million CAD. The unrestricted ocean view must have added a few million to the price.

Moses2013

Therein lies the problem "it's often difficult to find or achieve employment at a rate of pay that would enable you to obtain a mortgage to purchase property in many cities." It often means you might have to give up the city life and move to a more boring place to be able to afford a home. For some it might mean a longer commute and for others it might be the case that you are better off changing jobs. Two people working in finance might not be able to afford a home in the city, they could work for a fast food restaurant in a smaller town and might be better off financially.

CanadaJimmy

That used to be the case, but since the advent of more remote work following covid, even smaller towns are seeing extreme rises in property prices because more people are earning city-salaries while living in more rural areas.

Almost Canadian

I have just looked up the statutory termination notice periods in Ontario. They don't appear to be very expensive at all. I accept that they may cost the employer more than a similar employer in the US but a week for every year employed isn't particularly expensive. I also accept that some employment contracts may provide for a longer period.

dbd33

I'd be surprised if first time buyers in the GTA were employees. Even if two employees live together and each earn $120,000, it's not enough.