Rant-car dealerships

Old Dec 30th 2020, 2:07 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: Rant-car dealerships

Originally Posted by Cyan View Post
I usually do as much negotiating online via email before walking in. I get a few broker quotes for the model (1-2% above invoice) I'm interested in, print them out and email the dealer and ask them to match or beat it. Usually works and dispenses with the 4+ hours wasted playing mind games with the 'mysterious' sales manager/Wizard of Oz behind green curtains lol.

Fyi - last year, I got an estate/wagon version of a mainstream brand, and everyone at dealer treated me like I just got something exotic...big lol.
I did similar when I lived in the US. I would source the exact vehicle I wanted, get an online quote, then go to the nearest dealer and say ‘this is the vehicle I want’ if you can better the price and obtain it, the sale is yours’. Worked everytime.
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Old Dec 31st 2020, 9:30 pm
  #17  
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Default Re: Rant-car dealerships

Not sure the process is that much worse than the UK one, but the two things I hate here are the refusal to provide an actual price and instead insist on telling you the bi-weekly payments, and that new cars are used as demos so they expect you to accept a car with 5,000km on the clock as brand new at list price.
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Old Jan 5th 2021, 11:26 pm
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Default Re: Rant-car dealerships

As suspected, DD bought the 1st car she saw and didn't haggle. She didn't know you could at a dealership.

bless her. She's happy though, her car is at home but she's not driving it at the moment as there are insurance paperwork delays.
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Old Jan 5th 2021, 11:33 pm
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Default Re: Rant-car dealerships

Originally Posted by Piff Poff View Post
As suspected, DD bought the 1st car she saw and didn't haggle. She didn't know you could at a dealership.

bless her. She's happy though, her car is at home but she's not driving it at the moment as there are insurance paperwork delays.
The one and only time I obtained a new car from a lot, I should have taken my dad, I was like 20 and no clue what I was doing, ended up in a stupid lease with all sorts of crap I didn't need, oh well live and learn.

I am kind of glad in a way I never had income to get car loans after that point, probably saved me in the long run.

I also didn't really at that time being ignorant of how things worked, what a lease was...

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Old Jan 10th 2021, 4:18 am
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Default Re: Rant-car dealerships

Originally Posted by Piff Poff View Post
As suspected, DD bought the 1st car she saw and didn't haggle. She didn't know you could at a dealership.

bless her. She's happy though, her car is at home but she's not driving it at the moment as there are insurance paperwork delays.
in ON they wont let you drive it off the lot without insurance
Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
The one and only time I obtained a new car from a lot, I should have taken my dad, I was like 20 and no clue what I was doing, ended up in a stupid lease with all sorts of crap I didn't need, oh well live and learn.

I am kind of glad in a way I never had income to get car loans after that point, probably saved me in the long run.

I also didn't really at that time being ignorant of how things worked, what a lease was...
Leasing can be good if you really really want a brand new luxury vehicle and don't want to deal with the depreciation, and just get a new one after 4 years.

My next vehicle will be a 1-2 year old max used car with low km on the clock, basically get all the benefits of new without the depreciation.
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Old Jan 10th 2021, 4:25 am
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Default Re: Rant-car dealerships

The issue for me as HGerchikov pointed out is age....I am a car enthusiast and like fast cars, I am not shopping for a corolla or a practical SUV, I am shopping for 2 door coupes and sports sedans with 300-400hp. When I ask for an extended test drive they usually assume that I just want to take the vehicle for a joyride so usually refuse. And given the types of car I am shopping for are not mass-produced per se you can't get one as a rental. Especially not as an under 25, they will barely rent me a malibu without arguing. Good for when I want to take a road trip without putting excessive miles on my own car, but bad for shopping as I usually hate the rental car LOL
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Old Jan 10th 2021, 11:26 am
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Default Re: Rant-car dealerships

Originally Posted by Gozit View Post
Leasing can be good if you really really want a brand new luxury vehicle and don't want to deal with the depreciation, and just get a new one after 4 years.

My next vehicle will be a 1-2 year old max used car with low km on the clock, basically get all the benefits of new without the depreciation.
You realise that the lease costs include the estimated depreciation the car will suffer over the period of the lease term? So you are dealing with the depreciation by funding it out of your wallet every payment, together with the interest, admin fees, profit etc, while not building a cent of equity in the investment your making to ‘own’ a car.

Depreciation isn’t just a first or 2nd year issue with vehicles. The reducing value continues on an ongoing basis. There are many online resources to illustrate the depreciation curve of specific cars. Luxury, sports and coupes are often the hardest hit, unless you’re buying limited edition models (GT3 RS and its ilk, for example).
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Old Jan 11th 2021, 11:24 pm
  #23  
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Default Re: Rant-car dealerships

Originally Posted by Gozit View Post
in ON they wont let you drive it off the lot without insurance
Leasing can be good if you really really want a brand new luxury vehicle and don't want to deal with the depreciation, and just get a new one after 4 years.

My next vehicle will be a 1-2 year old max used car with low km on the clock, basically get all the benefits of new without the depreciation.
She got the basic basicvinsurance to get it registered and home, she didn't want to drive it anywhere until she got full insurance on it. She bought a 2019 Corolla with 34k on it.
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Old Jan 12th 2021, 3:58 am
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Default Re: Rant-car dealerships

Originally Posted by Piff Poff View Post
She got the basic basicvinsurance to get it registered and home, she didn't want to drive it anywhere until she got full insurance on it. She bought a 2019 Corolla with 34k on it.
Ah - did you mean this as 'basic' rather than fully comprehensive/all perils etc.,? I had forgotten there are 'options' in Ontario! She's a smart cookie!
https://www.tdinsurance.com/products...verage/ontario
In Ontario, the types of auto insurance you need to have by law are: Liability Coverage, Direct Compensation, Uninsured Automobile Coverage, and Accident Benefit Coverage. It's the bare minimum.
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Old Jan 12th 2021, 5:45 am
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Default Re: Rant-car dealerships

Originally Posted by Gozit View Post
So i've been casually looking at a new car in the last few months, and i'm just fed up of the way car dealerships operate. Not sure if it is the same in UK/Europe as i've only ever experienced it here, but honestly....

1. Pushy salespeople that want to pressure you into signing a deal right away and do not want to work with the client
2. The above, but just rude..
3. Brand name dealerships that should in theory be trustworthy not following OMVIC regulations
4. As a car enthusiast how are you supposed to decide whether you like a vehicle / like the way it drives based off a 15 min test drive around the block, especially in pre-covid times where the salesperson would sometimes come on the test drive and natter in the back seat while your trying to drive.
5. Why can I get a 0.99% loan on a $75k new vehicle but if I want to buy the $40k used version of the same one it is 7% or at BEST 4.7% and costs more then the new one over time, but if you sell the new one in 3 years you will be upside down in depreciation and not be able to pay off what you owe.
6. Dealerships that refuse to allow test drives of certain vehicles-I ran into this when shopping for my first vehicle they refused to allow me to test drive the one I wanted, ended up buying the competing vehicle from another manufacturer. This time around have people not wanting to allow a test drive but have no equivalent vehicle - back to point 4 WHY would i buy a vehicle without being able to drive it.

Seriously to point 4 there should be an easy way to provide a credit card hold or cash deposit, or $500 charge to take the car for the weekend as a trial period. Saves you from buying something and having buyers remorse, being unable to return the vehicle or get your old one back, etc.


Crikey...the whole experience makes you feel sour and just want to throw in the towel drive your current vehicle into the ground until it literally disintegrates lol. Rant over.
I feel your pain.

The best way to avoid it is to minimise all face-to-face contact at the dealership, to the extent possible.

In the initial stage, you're looking to obtain test drives with minimal necessary dealer interaction:
- Do your own research on the internet. As an enthusiast, you'll naturally do that anyway, but you can probably boil-down your 'physical' decision-making process--i.e. test drives of competing options--to two or three at most.
---> In many cases, you'll be able to eliminate one or more options without a test drive at all, i.e. just by sitting in the car (especially a new model), and finding it not quite what you'd expected/hoped-for from online reviews. This has a huge advantage, in that you don't have to give away any contact information to inspect the car in this way.
- Where you do feel you need a test drive, you'll almost certainly need to provide a copy of your drivers license to obtain one, but resist providing *any* other contact information (e.g. mobile number and/or email address). Tell them you'll be happy to provide it if you prove to be interested in the car.
---> That may not always work, but before capitulating, demand to know the *entirety* of what is required before the test drive goes ahead. Particularly in relation to enthusiast cars, you may then hear that you need to make some kind of contractual commitment to purchase before the test drive will happen. If that happens, walk out immediately, and don't be afraid to be direct and even a bit rude about it. You won't want to deal with that dealership again.
---> If instead they don't require a contractual commitment, but do insist on more contact data, make your own call about whether you're comfortable supplying it. (Or perhaps, consider supplying formerly valid but out-of-date data...)

Whatever you do to get your test drive(s), give a lukewarm or mildly negative reaction to it in front of the sales-droid, no matter what you actually think. If your partner is along for the ride, make sure they're also on-message. Above all, don't engage in any further part of the sales process, in person, at the dealership, after the test drive.

The second stage, price negotiation, is all conducted online. Know exactly which model, which options, and which colour you want. Look online for the e-mail address of the internet sales manager or fleet manager of every dealer of that brand within a 200KM radius, and e-mail them asking for their best cash price on that car.

If you're looking, as you've said, at enthusiast models, then expect that dealer markup might be part of the negotiation process (online-only--stick to that). But if you cast your net wide enough, you might well find a small-town dealer who doesn't get much demand for enthusiast product in their local customer base, but gets saddled with a factory quota to move them. (Been there, done that, a very satisfying t-shirt to have...)

Last edited by abner; Jan 12th 2021 at 5:57 am.
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Old Jan 12th 2021, 6:49 am
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Default Re: Rant-car dealerships

Originally Posted by Gozit View Post
in ON they wont let you drive it off the lot without insurance
Leasing can be good if you really really want a brand new luxury vehicle and don't want to deal with the depreciation, and just get a new one after 4 years.

My next vehicle will be a 1-2 year old max used car with low km on the clock, basically get all the benefits of new without the depreciation.
It was not a luxury car by any means, it was 1999 so didn't even have a CD player...lol

It was purely me being young and stupid and being talked into it by the car dealer.

Weird thing, 3 years later, despite making more money, and having a higher credit score, I couldn't get financed anywhere at a reasonable rate, and I never missed a payment on the lease, so I never bought or had a new car again, used is all I have had and they always worked out way cheaper in the end.



One of the upsides to the BC car insurance system, is if you buy new or used from a dealer, they almost always bring the insurance broker to you.

Last edited by scrubbedexpat091; Jan 12th 2021 at 6:53 am.
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Old Jan 12th 2021, 11:38 am
  #27  
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Default Re: Rant-car dealerships

I have to say that I just purchased a 2021 Venue by Hyundai last Friday. I had a great experience at the dealership with the saleswoman and the finance officer.

The transaction was easy as the price was right and I got a great trade-in value for my old car and financed at 3.9%,
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Old Jan 14th 2021, 3:41 am
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Default Re: Rant-car dealerships

Originally Posted by abner View Post
I feel your pain.

The best way to avoid it is to minimise all face-to-face contact at the dealership, to the extent possible.

In the initial stage, you're looking to obtain test drives with minimal necessary dealer interaction:
- Do your own research on the internet. As an enthusiast, you'll naturally do that anyway, but you can probably boil-down your 'physical' decision-making process--i.e. test drives of competing options--to two or three at most.
---> In many cases, you'll be able to eliminate one or more options without a test drive at all, i.e. just by sitting in the car (especially a new model), and finding it not quite what you'd expected/hoped-for from online reviews. This has a huge advantage, in that you don't have to give away any contact information to inspect the car in this way.
- Where you do feel you need a test drive, you'll almost certainly need to provide a copy of your drivers license to obtain one, but resist providing *any* other contact information (e.g. mobile number and/or email address). Tell them you'll be happy to provide it if you prove to be interested in the car.
---> That may not always work, but before capitulating, demand to know the *entirety* of what is required before the test drive goes ahead. Particularly in relation to enthusiast cars, you may then hear that you need to make some kind of contractual commitment to purchase before the test drive will happen. If that happens, walk out immediately, and don't be afraid to be direct and even a bit rude about it. You won't want to deal with that dealership again.
---> If instead they don't require a contractual commitment, but do insist on more contact data, make your own call about whether you're comfortable supplying it. (Or perhaps, consider supplying formerly valid but out-of-date data...)

Whatever you do to get your test drive(s), give a lukewarm or mildly negative reaction to it in front of the sales-droid, no matter what you actually think. If your partner is along for the ride, make sure they're also on-message. Above all, don't engage in any further part of the sales process, in person, at the dealership, after the test drive.

The second stage, price negotiation, is all conducted online. Know exactly which model, which options, and which colour you want. Look online for the e-mail address of the internet sales manager or fleet manager of every dealer of that brand within a 200KM radius, and e-mail them asking for their best cash price on that car.

If you're looking, as you've said, at enthusiast models, then expect that dealer markup might be part of the negotiation process (online-only--stick to that). But if you cast your net wide enough, you might well find a small-town dealer who doesn't get much demand for enthusiast product in their local customer base, but gets saddled with a factory quota to move them. (Been there, done that, a very satisfying t-shirt to have...)
Cheers. This is helpful.
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Old Jan 15th 2021, 2:14 am
  #29  
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Default Re: Rant-car dealerships

I bought a 2019 F150 last February, just before Covid (new old stock but only built in October 2019 in the last build week for that year).

With Ford, I like how you can view the whole Province’s stock online from home, pick the VIN numbers you’re interested in and shop them around all the Dealers in the Province to see who will sell to you for the lowest price.

So I got $20K off $70K so-called “List” in the end. There was about a $3500 range in prices (after you strip out the piss-takers), and some of it is controlled by which dealer actually has the vehicle in their yard and if they wanted any swaps...and they might not be the lowest price either.

Some of the dealers were more interested in the finance or leasing commission than selling the vehicle.

Financed it myself with part cash, part 2.5% line of credit and paying off over 3-4 years. Do about 25,000 Kms per year, 80-90% of which is work, so it should have plenty of value left.

Also get a T2200 form from work, which means I can put a lot of depreciation, fuel and running costs against my taxes 👍

Back in the UK I always bought from Motorpoint. Found them to always be best price and not too much bullshit after they realized you weren’t wanting their finance. We always bought either grey imports from Ireland when the £ was strong against the €, or 6 month old higher-end ex-rental cars (both self and wife) for tax-effective work cars. The higher-end ones usually had automatic and lowest mileage. Automatic rental cars in the UK sit unused more than manuals, because they are almost twice the rental price!

Last edited by withabix; Jan 15th 2021 at 2:26 am.
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Old Jan 16th 2021, 3:20 am
  #30  
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Default Re: Rant-car dealerships

I do know that some vehicle brands (Ford for definit) are struggling to get stock, so dealerships are not quirpte so willing to deal. The car lots in my are are empty. Little new stock, little used stock.
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