PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

I saw this and thought it might be of interest to those contemplating buying property in Canada and the incomes required.

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/3787312/original.jpg

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

It seems from the chart that the price of houses is about seven times the needed income.

How does that work; are houses usually purchased by working threesomes each of whom generates the "needed income"?

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

Interesting, I was shocked at the average price for the Hamilton area although the market did see the biggest gain in Canada (16%); I know it's the 'average' but I know of many houses for sale here under $250k.

Average Hamilton house price jumps 16.4% in past year - Latest Hamilton news - CBC Hamilton

:eek:

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

when it comes down to what you can afford, your down payment, the LTV etc, the lowest 5 year term variable rate at present (google is your friend) through a broker is 1.99%. So, for every $100,000 of mortgage it'll cost $212/mth in mortgage payments.

Go from there

Compare Canadian mortgage rates and credit cards - Find the best rates and cards in Canada - RateHub.ca

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

It doesn't really reflect what TD mortgage affordability calculator comes up with. An income of $55,000 with 10% down payment only nets you a mortgage of about $250,000 max.

We'll probably move next year. Current house doesn't really suit our needs and we have a couple who want to buy it privately. Trying to figure out what the next move will be tricky- far trickier than back home!

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

I am so glad you posted that. I had the following drafted after many edits and then I looked to see if anyone else had commented.

I know the term 'average' means some will be more and some less but it does sort of put people off even looking.

I was just looking at assessed values the other day in my neighbourhood.

I know it's not the same as market value but the differences are a guide and I do know the asking price for houses in the area when we were house hunting. There were two just across from us that we looked at.

My house is actually the highest assessed value in the street and one of the highest in the surrounding streets.

We live in a very nice neighbourhood, close to shops, schools, hospital and minutes away from a major road with transit.

We're about $25k below that average figure and I know there are perfectly decent houses in good areas for much less. Playing around with the price range I can see twice as many houses up to $175k as over.


Occasionally I look at other areas of Canada to see what might be affordable for us (using capital additional to the equity in the current home) and there's a whole bunch of options either side of Toronto. From this graphic, Hamilton is listed as an astonishing average of $448k.

Now, I have no idea what the areas are like but an MLS search comes up with over 100 homes for under $200k and nearly half are detached houses.

Maybe Siouxie will confirm whether they're all in horrible areas or about to fall down or both.

Depending on where you draw the boundary lines a bit more than half of the houses in my town are under the average cost while about two-thirds of Hamilton's houses are under it's average.

Looking at the up-scale properties it seems that Hamilton's average is distorted by many houses for a few million or more.

In central Moncton less than 10% of houses for sale are over $300k.

This is perhaps one of those cases where average doesn't really represent the average person.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

The average price doesn't really work. Take for instance in my neck of the woods

http://www.durhamrealestate.org/uploads/marketwatch.pdf

I picked Oshawa, which from the looks of listings is similar to Moncton?

First one 3 bedroom for $239,900

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/S...1J1K2-Lakeview

Second one at $235,000 with a basement apartment

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/S...L1H5B2-Central

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

The chart for at least 1 area of BC is a little misleading by including Mission and Abbotsford, Mission's lower prices water down the averages, and if you exclude Mission, my guess is the average in Abby will be higher then is listed.

I don't know if it makes a difference to what TD calculator says, but the chart is based on a 20% down payment.



Appears that only Atlantic Canada, & Windsor, ON are within our buying zone... But then again our income in those places would be lower and we wouldn't have access to a low income mortgage, so probably still couldn't afford to buy......

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

Regardless of what the chart shows, there are houses and townhouses that you could afford in the Brantford>Hamilton>St. Catherines triangle (and some of the surrounding areas) - there's a reasonable amount of work available too.

I fancy this one even if it is a fixer upper :) http://www.loriv.com/MLS-Listing-699...-JONES-ST.aspx

:)

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

You buy what you can afford then over time you pay down the mortgage, the property increases in value, and your income rises, so you can sell your home realise a larger deposit than you started with, and borrow a little more to "move up the property ladder".

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

But when you have city's where a fixer upper requires an income of double the average or more, you may find that there is nothing you can afford if your not an above average 6 figure income household.

This is the lowest price house in Vancouver listed on the MLS... 938,000 and it's a fixer upper/tear down.

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/S...olumbia-V5L1L3

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

That doesn't work in Canada though. We've been overpaying our mortgage but if we used a realtor to sell them all we've done by overpaying the mortgage is pay their 5% + HST fee. It would leave us cost neutral and with the same deposit we started with..:sneaky:

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

That is awful!!

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

Well it's not my fault you moved to Canada. :rolleyes: ..... It's the same in the US. :(

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

Well I know that:p

It does make it very difficult to actually acquire any more deposit. You really need to get it right first time. I'm wondering whether we should build:unsure:

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

I'm not convinced that the lower income would be in the same proportion.

Also, it probably depends on what's meant by a fixer-upper. Does that mean it needs a fitted kitchen? A shower fitted because the current shower is really a bath with shower installation rather than a nice separate shower unit? Or heating is 'just' a wood stove rather than geothermal heat pump?

I remember a few weeks ago there was a thread about bathrooms where en suite bathrooms for each bedroom was considered the norm.

Maybe that place with 'only' one bathroom is a fixer-upper.

Maybe a fixer-upper is really somewhere needing what used to be called TLC.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

We bought more house than we needed almost 13 years ago, with a view to staying put for the foreseeable future. By the time we had (self) moved our stuff from Virginia I said "That's it! We're done, I'm not moving again!" :lol:

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

Use a fixed fee agent instead? That would save you a fortune!

:)

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

Well we've hopefully got private buyers, I was using myself as an example why you can't do as Pulaski said was easy on page 1..

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

Fixer upper in Vancouver generally means not something most would be willing to live in, or completely in need of tear down and being rebuilt....:lol:

The lower mainland as a whole is cheaper, but even in the cheaper regions like Surrey/Maple Ridge/Abbotsford etc well above our price limit....

With 0 debt our max is around 175k, once student loans are paid, we would be able to be in the 150k upper limit with the car payment.

(All according to the credit union mortgage lady.) (Being they are a credit union, they only do mortgages within BC, and not sure we have the earning power to make up the loss of disability as the cheaper provinces don't really have the same sort of program BC does. Hard to know for sure how things would work in another province in the long run.)

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

Yes, pretty much my point.

From stuff posted here - not just by you - you do have to be very well off or, at least, richer than most in Van.

If you're very well off then you don't have to be "willing to live in" a house of a certain age, missing certain features etc because you can afford better. Maybe the rest of us would be perfectly content.

We have an 'unfinished' basement. Our second bathroom is only a 'half' with lav and basin. There's no bidet or extra shower. :lol:
Our kitchen has no island or breakfast bar (oh the shame :rofl:) We don't have a porch or fancy front door.

http://www.grpcompositedoors.com/ima...Panels/sp1.jpg

I daresay there are those who might describe it as a fixer upper. :rofl:

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

You have to be well off and think that your house is a priority. I know a couple who have a household income of around $500,000 and grown up children. I suppose they're very well off by most standards but they live in one of those Don Mills bungalows everyone could afford in the 1990s; three small bedrooms, one bathroom, unfinished basement. Their priorities are elsewhere.

If we're to race to the bottom, then I think I can say with confidence that the lack of skirting boards, window sills and trim, "student rental" carpets, beige walls and dog destroyed furniture coverings lend our house an air of crack den unlikely to be out shabby chic-ed here.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

I've had two multi-millionaire acquaintances over the years. Once lived in... well, kind of a shack, really... and drove a 20-year-old Mercedes, because he got rich by saving and investing and not spending money. The other lived in a French chateau, because he got rich by building a business, and considered chateau maintenance a hobby (no-one sane buys one unless they're willing to keep spending a ton of money on the place).

Most of the people buying $1,000,000 houses probably have high incomes and tons of debt. An acquaintance tried to buy one a few months ago, but the bank turned them down. Even we don't know how they possibly thought they could afford it.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

living in Canada, can you imagine the income tax that multi-millionaire pays on top of the maintenance & upkeep of the old Mercedes.:ohmy:

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

That one was in California, but he was still complaining about how none of the mythical tax avoidance schemes millionaires are supposed to be able to use actually work at his income level. These days, it seems you really need to be a billionaire before you can easily avoid tax.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

I'm not a billionaire and have no trouble avoiding most income tax (I do pay but the rate is something like .041%). If there was a means to avoiding paying EHT and CPP then I might be able to afford to run an old Mercedes.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

Aren't you running a business, though? When I was a kid, I remember my father talking about how much less tax he paid after he was laid off and started his own business (which always amused me, since he was a Labour man for life).

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

Well yes, but how many millionaires and billionaires are paid in the form of a T4'd salary?

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

I've read postings like this that you have made before and have always thought that you must have no income. After reading about the lack of finishing touches to your residence, I believe that I may have been correct.

Now, as a business owner myself, I appreciate that there are certain write offs available, but nowhere near to the extent that the income tax that I pay could be reduced to less than half of one percent of my income.

Even if "your" income was held as retained earnings in a corp. "you" would be paying more than half of one percent of it in tax.

Please provide us all with an example of something (other than the cost cell phone) that "you" are able to receive but, for which, you are not taxed.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

Income. There may be some non-taxed benefits, such as pleasure use of a company vehicle or telephone, but it's income that's important to me; not quite cash but bank deposits to be used for routine purposes such as finishing the house.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

Easiest way to legally avoid taxes is to just stay low income. One upside to being poor is the govt doesnt tax you much if at all. You even get most of your GST back since most purchases of are things that are GST exempt.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

Back to the property values mentioned - Average price is an awful indicator of house prices in an area as one high value property will skew the figures substantially, but one low value property won't , as an example, if there is an area with 9 houses worth $100,000 and one house worth $10,000,000, then the average house value in that area is just under $1.1 million, yet that's not a good indicator of the price you would likely pay to live in that area, which would be $100,000.
On the flip side, if the $10,000,000 house was only worth $10,000, the average house value in the area is now $91,000 - very close to the price you would likely pay to live in that area.

When I first looked at moving to BC, I could afford to buy the property I wanted with the income and savings I had, firstly in Coquitlam, but as time went on and property values rocketed, I was pushed further out, first to Pitt Meadows, then Maple Ridge, then Mission. Had I waited any longer to buy, I would have ended up living in Chilliwack to get what I wanted.

(Note, I wanted a large house, with 2 acres minimum of land.)

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

Its a good indicator in Vancouver where the lowest priced house listes is 938,000 and average just over 1 million. Lol

I would take Chilliwack as an option but seems even there we are largely priced out now.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

You can afford a house in Chilliwack.

Chilliwack Area MLS® Listings & Real Estate for Sale | REW.ca

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

So what exactly does one do if they like an area, but the house prices are, for example, $500,000, and a 10% deposit is required - which I believe is some new mandate from some government body for some mortgages? That's $50,000, which is a chunk of money I doubt many have just sitting around.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

Some of those are not bad at all. Low fees too.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

If you don't have the required deposit, you simply can't afford to live there, just like you can't afford to own a new Ferrari. Find somewhere else to live that you CAN afford.

I really can't understand why people don't get this.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

Exactly, if you're prepared to compromise on location and you have a job, you can afford to buy a house.
If you can't scrape up the deposit, there are other options too - I have never tried one, but there are rent to own schemes out there.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

Be thankful you didn't over extend yourself to buy in Alberta over the past year :thumbup:

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

We want to own for lifestyle for a yard and space. Condos just cant provide that so may as well rent and keel flexibility.

I will trade flexibility for a yard but not for a condo which wont improve anything.

When I search freehold and house under 150k on mls rarely does anything show up in the wack.

Search the whole province for that range and you end up with Texada, lilloet and other small towns.

I just dont see an advantage to an old condo building. Seems risky buying into a building that is 20 or 30 or even 50. How long are they going to last?