Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

You don't actually get the HST back, at least I don't, what I get is an HST rebate. I don't know how they calculate the amount but it's nowhere near the amount I spend on HST and it's not determined by any sort of analysis of my HST spending. It may be a fixed amount for everyone with a taxable income below some figure.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

When your poor though you buy little that is taxable. 2 biggest exspenses for us is rent and food. Neither are taxable. Rent might have it included but its not added to the rent in any visible way.

I kept track last year and in no quarter did our gst paid in purchases exceed what we get back.

When you have little extra to spend sales tax isnt paid on much.

We dont have HST in BC.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

At least if you bought a condo you'd be putting money in to something rather than chucking it away as rent though.

Nobody (generally) buys what they want first time around - our first house was a grotty repossessed shoebox with horrendous damp, on a main road next to an industrial estate, in the worst part of an awful town. But we did it up, made a chunk of money on it as it had been improved plus the market had risen, and then we took that equity and put in to the next house. Repeat 4 times, and we're now in our dream house, but it took 15 years and a lot of hard work to get there.

You can't expect to just jump in to the house you'd like, that's why it's called the 'housing ladder' - you climb it.

I've no idea what the market is like in Vancouver now and if it's still expected to rise, but if it is then perhaps you'd be better of buying a condo if that's all you can afford, slowly doing it up and then selling in a couple of years when hopefully you've got some equity in it to put in to the house you want?

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

I think the housing ladder thing is something that only really exists in English speaking countries. It might have worked well in the past, but things are changing and enough people are now stuck in properties they can't get rid of. If you don't want a condo, then rent some crappy place that allows you to save enough money, or move to an area where housing is cheaper. As a first time buyer, you should only really buy when the market crashes. If you can't wait that long, then buy a property you can see yourself living long term.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

There may be factors involved as to why you can't move somewhere else that is dramatically cheaper, for example; a longer commute, which can then fold into parental responsibilities, such as picking up kids from school.

Ah, but of course one could just, at a drop of a hat, get a job in a new cheaper location.

It must be wonderful to be in a position where this kind of thing seemingly isn't a big concern.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

its all to scale, how much the small private limited revenues are, minus cost of goods or services sold, operating cost & expenses to wishfully having some retained earnings.

As an owner operator of a limited company, the owner operator taking the smallest of salary as to pay minimum income tax, using all the benefits within the CRA guidelines to deduct business operating from home expenses, vehicle operating cost, phones, gas etc, its possible (fine tuned) to pay minimal personal income tax. Exclude any CCA on the equipment to run the business.

With any luck on having retained earnings, the way to get the money of the company is paying dividends to the owner, principles or directors, all who should be family members.

Then again many small companies are leveraged with loans

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

I think you're preaching to the converted there Not2old. Even taking all that into account I thought the same thing yesterday with Dbd.. Even incorporations get taxed at 15% in Ontario..

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

yes, I know - dbd was talking about his personal income tax not the corporations/company tax.

Even as a proprietorship run operation, not a limited company, given a small revenue of $x, deducting expenses allowed for operating costs, including part of the expenses for operating from his/her house as the legal business address, taking away personal deductions for themselves as well as any spousal deductions - its possible to pay zero income tax on a net $20k gross income without even doing any RRSP deductions.

Its likely also that dbd may be paying his OH minimum that is under the income tax threshold also. If that's the case they could get their income to $24k - not a lot of money, but doable. Whatever formula works for them

Is it possible for dbd living on the farm with a back 40, that has zero mortgage, for he & his OH (with no kids) to live on $20k/year using the benefits of company vehicle, cell phone, gasoline etc?

Its all to scale...depends on what income & what you need to live on

I know that me & my OH with no children have no difficulty living on $20k/yr & we have zero write off's

.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

Yes, we do all that so as to optimize the use of all available allowances, but the key to tax reduction, as AC should know, is a well organized marital status.

Support payments are taxable in the hands of the recipient, they're deductible from the income of the payer so, if one is primarily concerned with tax issues, an option to consider is a divorce with support payments arranged to suit one's marginal tax band (or if aggressive, one's total income). If enough money is involved then making the recipient "spouse" resident in a low tax regime, such as a non-dom in London, will cause the allowances to be applied in the country of income and the tax to be applied in, well, nowhere really.

Incidentally, when we had a few good years corporately, our tax advisors suggested that they could eliminate almost all taxes by use of foreign corporations and trust arrangements. We didn't have the income to justify the set up and maintenance cost of all that; you need to be seriously rich before you don't have to contribute anything at all to society.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

No.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

lol ;)

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

Two of my tenants (both couples) have moved from my duplex to buying their own place so it is possible for rent not to be 'wasted' money.

Not that my duplex is a crappy place of course. :cool:

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

IIRC it wouldn't pay for the market cheese and liquor store bills. :lol:

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

Most people I know in the UK bought a decently sized house and have lived in it ever since. The exceptions have been due to marriage, divorce, or moving across the country for a new job.

Of course, they bought in the 90s or earlier, when houses weren't insanely overpriced, and wages went up a significant amount every year.

The 'housing ladder' does not work when prices are perpetually rising and incomes aren't. If you buy a $100,000 condo today instead of a $200,000 house, and your condo is worth $200,000 in five years, the house will probably be worth $400,000 and you're even less able to afford it than now unless your wages have more than doubled.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

You wait for a crash. The more valuable the property, the bigger the proportionate fall in value so, for example, the condo value falls to $175,000, the house falls to $250,000. The gap is reduced and up you go.

(Note that I have not followed this sensible model or anything remotely like it but a friend in the US did exactly this and it's worked out very well).

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

I disagree personally. Despite the fact that my salary is now less than a third of what it was when we first bought 15 years ago, and that my husband's has barely increased, and that property values have been constantly rising in our part of the UK, we have still gone from a grotty one bed in a horrid part of town, to a large detached house with land. That's solely down to increasing the value of each property massively by renovating them and jumping up the ladder each time.

Price rices and incomes not rising aren't great I agree, but that's not the only thing that can help.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

From stargazers, to trends & forecast models, everyone has a different crystal ball.

All the while, the CREA in its latest forecast estimates on December 15th

CREA Updates Resale Housing Forecast | crea.ca


"In 2016, national sales are forecast to reach 498,600, down 1.1 per cent from 2015 as activity in B.C. and Ontario moderates and housing market conditions soften in Alberta.

Sales declines there will offset activity gains in Quebec and Atlantic provinces, where strengthening economic prospects should translate into a slow and steady improvement in sales amid the continuation of affordable prices due to an elevated supply of listings. The exception is in Newfoundland and Labrador, where economic and demographic challenges are expected to persist in 2016.

The national average price is forecast to edge higher by 1.4 per cent to $448,700 in 2016. Price gains in 2016 are forecast to be strongest in Ontario (+2.9 per cent) due to an ongoing shortage of listings for single family homes coupled with strong demand for them in and around the GTA".

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

I didn't read the piece from the real estate association as it always says "good time to buy, unless you want to sell".

I wouldn't bet on any movement in property values except:

- will likely rise over 20 years or so
- will go up and down periodically in-between

even then I wouldn't count on not having to sell when prices have recently fallen; I'd just hope to have stayed long enough to be able to see that fall as a blip.

I've lost money on most of the houses I've had and, while I haven't had to deal with a shortfall sale, I know people who have. If you have uncertain plans or live in a one industry town there's a good case for renting.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

That's property development, not a 'property ladder'.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

I know people who've been waiting over ten years for a crash in the UK so they could buy a decent place to live. Governments can follow insane policies for much longer than most people can afford to hold out.

And I'm not convinced that condos will fall less in value than houses; crashes in the UK have typically been quite the opposite, where hardly anyone wanted to buy a flat if they could now afford to buy a house.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

For what its worth...

The current dwelling that we live in is in the eastern GTA. Its an average place, nothing spectacular, not something because of its structure or location has increased in price higher than other properties in other parts of the GTA - its just average.

We have lived in it for 13 years mortgage free, the price has increased $300,000 & during that time the out of pocket cost living here (excluding utilities) in just property taxes, upgrades, new fixtures, appliances, repairs & maintenance, I estimated we have spent close to $85,000.

Should we sell today, our net return (in pocket) after paying the 13 years of costs, the RE commission & legal fees - is a return of 3.7% per year, which isn't all that bad I suppose.

If we have had a mortgage, we would have had little or negative return

.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

Jsmith,
If you really want to, you can buy a house in Chilliwack, with a yard. What is required is some effort, in approx 5 seconds, I found 6 houses for less than $175k that fit the bill, I'm pretty sure you could too, if you tried.

You're an adult with an income - if you want a house, go buy one, don't complain that it's not easy - not much worthwhile is easy.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

Property taxes, strata fees (condos, townhomes, etc), buildings insurance, renovations, fixing stuff, buying fee's, selling fee's, and so on... :p

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

Sharkus, if you want a cheaper house, you need to move further out. If that leads to a commute, so be it. I have a 1 hour 30 mins commute, so that I could afford a large house with some land, that's the reality. I'm not in any wonderful position, just willing to make sacrifices to make my families life better. It isn't an ideal world out there and you have to make sacrifices and compromises - obviously this compromise doesn't suit everyone, but then I'm a strange kind of person that puts my family first and doesn't bitch about it.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

And I know people who have lost a bundle during crashes in the UK within the past ten years. I accept that the crash in the London Borough of Kensington and Chelsea will be a long time coming but there is a UK outside the North Circular (or so I'm told).

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

This is why I am wary of condos. We know more then 1 person stuck in a condo they dont want but cant sell because values have been stagnent. Unlike houses condos are not a hot comodity and dont see the same increases in value.

My wife works with a girl who bougjt 10 years ago to so the ladder thing. Her condos value is less today but houses have more then doubled in cost. So now she is stuck and missed out on house as now she is priced out.

The real estate agents my wife works with see it all the time people stuck in condos with no way out.

Mother in law bought a condo in 2000 and it sold for 10k less in 2013 when she sold it.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

The just move thing is annoying. We would move but that takea money ans of course jobs before moving but when your not skilled its generally not possible to get a job prior to moving. Employers have no reason to consider an out of town applicant.

Plus wifes job is here and she enjoys her job and rent is no cheaper elsewhere in the LM so why move?

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

Ooh get you it's this post and your other which shows a complete lack of understanding and empathy for somebody's else position..

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

I dont know where you found then. I checked MLS and nothing came up.

175 is max if debt free and no car. Since we need the car realistically thw max is going to be closer to 140.

Debt free isnt an issue but a car well no way around that. Where transit is a viable option housing is way above our limit. So have to keep a stupid car.

I check the MLS all the time. Never see much in 140 range or less exept in isolated small towns with no employment opportunity.

We are 3 to 5 years before we can do anything and who knows what the mortgage rules will be by then. My not even have access to one by then.

We dont qualify for a traditional mortgage so limited to one specific one Van City offers.

Its more complicated then it would be for most.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

No, it doesn't, he's laying out the variables in a mature manner

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

thanks for a good perspective

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

and isn't that ironic? :)

:(

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

This is my experience, 1 year has pushed me out 15 KM - it's INSANE

Sorry to whinge but it is insane, IMHO :p

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

:rofl::rofl:

lol, you're funny, well at least I'm laughing at your comment anyway.

You're half right - I understand exactly what the other person's position is, but I do not in any way empathise, to claim to do so would mean that I shared their feelings, which I do not and I make no apologies for that.

There is a common theme on this and many other similar threads where people complain at length about how expensive it is to buy a house where they want as if that's wrong somehow and they should be allowed to. I want a big house with acreage in West Van, but I certainly can't afford it, which is why I bought one in Mission.

Complaining won't change this situation, unless you make drastic changes in your life you're never going to be able to buy in the area you want. My advice (not that it's wanted or will be listened to) Move on. Either accept the fact that you can't afford to buy a house in that area, or can only afford a shitty house in that area (that you could always improve and move up in your area), or accept that you will have a longer commute to get a better house further away.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

Jsmith,

If you're really serious about wanting to buy a house, I have a great mortgage guy that I think could help you. I can PM you his details.
He will be able to tell you exactly what you can get (he has access to way more deals than can be found on the internet) PM me and I will send them to you if you want assistance?

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

You're not whinging buddy, simply being realistic, like I was.

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

Has anyone heard how BoC suggested negative rates is an option?

That is not going to help any of our "wishes" :lol:

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

lol, I have read this too. It just means that we won't get interest on our savings (in fact may have to pay the bank for having our money there)

Mortgage interest rates would also come down a bit, but this leads to the risk of people maxing out now and then being crucified when the rates go back up again. I would always recommend building in some breathing space when getting a mortgage (I took a mortgage of about 3/4 of what I could have got).

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

On those points JS, discussed previously your situation is one of healthcare subsidy for your wife, jobs & affordability.

On another thread suggestions made was for you to look at other parts of the country such as New Brunswick where property (duplex or triplex) could be bought for less than $150k.

This one for $100k

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/S...unswick-E1C6B1

Given that a 5 year variable mortgage is in the 2% range, that with a small deposit you'd be able to afford your own place, supplemented income from renting one half of the duplex to pay in part the mortgage, property taxes & maintenance. Maybe a higher interest rate mortgage along the lines of a CHMC insured mortgage or cash back 100% mortgage may work for you also?

Condo IMO is not the way to go given all of the issues & the add-on costs

Re: PROPERTY VALUES AND INCOMES REQUIRED.
 

Looks like Canadian economy might really be in doldrums next year