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British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   The Maple Leaf (https://britishexpats.com/forum/maple-leaf-98/)
-   -   PM Boris (https://britishexpats.com/forum/maple-leaf-98/pm-boris-926655/)

dave_j Dec 13th 2019 5:26 am
Re: PM Boris
 
Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd (Post 12778431)
Johnson really was Hobson's choice.
It was Hobson then, not Corbyn or Brexit at all!

Almost Canadian Dec 13th 2019 5:30 am
Re: PM Boris
 
Originally Posted by mikelincs (Post 12778427)
Of course there are no problems Tory ministers are they... ohh well apart from a PM who has been sacked from his cabinet post before, from his newspaper post, considered a security risk by MI5 and is an out and out racist, anti-Islamic, antisemitic, homophobic, chap. oherwise he's squeaky clean :rofl: , a foreign secretary who was sacked for illegally selling arms
Which just goes to show how appalling the electorate must have believed the alternate to be. :p

dbd33 Dec 13th 2019 5:33 am
Re: PM Boris
 
Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd (Post 12778431)
Im no fan of Johnson, but someone needed to get Brexit done..
1. There's no need to do it, it's a bad idea.
2. Johnson can't actually do it - except if he revives "no deal".

That reason for electing Johnson makes no sense at all. We can only hope the consequences of electing him are not too dire.

dbd33 Dec 13th 2019 5:36 am
Re: PM Boris
 
Originally Posted by Almost Canadian (Post 12778449)
Which just goes to show how appalling the electorate must have believed the alternate tp be. :p
It could be that they looked at Corbyn and were repulsed. If so, I join the public in that. It could also be that they looked across the Atlantic, saw the President of the US and thought "Oh yes, that's what we need, we should get someone like that".

DaveLovesDee Dec 13th 2019 6:05 am
Re: PM Boris
 
Originally Posted by Almost Canadian (Post 12778449)
Which just goes to show how appalling the electorate must have believed the alternate was. :p
When people are repeatedly told the same anti-Corbyn and anti-Labour stuff over and over by the media, some of which Tories have also done at the time (but this is never admitted to), people will believe it. The media is supposed to hold the government to account, but few of them are anything other than Tory cheerleaders.

Unfortunately, Corbyn's history of standing up for the little guy counted against him, so did his being from the traditional Labour left instead of being New Labour / Blairite. Whoever the next Labour is, they'll be a Blairite and someone who'll take Labour to the right. Where that leaves traditional Labour supporters will be something the party and those supporters need to consider.

Almost Canadian Dec 13th 2019 7:02 am
Re: PM Boris
 
Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 12778450)
1. There's no need to do it, it's a bad idea.
2. Johnson can't actually do it - except if he revives "no deal".

That reason for electing Johnson makes no sense at all. We can only hope the consequences of electing him are not too dire.
I am not as convinced as you are that he won't be able to get it done. Hopefully, both sides will be able to put their cards on the table and focus upon what they need to do. It should be obvious to both sides now that there will not be those on the sidelines pitching it to spoil whatever agreement they are able to come up with.

Almost Canadian Dec 13th 2019 7:07 am
Re: PM Boris
 
Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12778471)
When people are repeatedly told the same anti-Corbyn and anti-Labour stuff over and over by the media, some of which Tories have also done at the time (but this is never admitted to), people will believe it. The media is supposed to hold the government to account, but few of them are anything other than Tory cheerleaders.
I didn't see that at all. "He's running from the media" is what I saw, but I know you won't agree with me.

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12778471)
Unfortunately, Corbyn's history of standing up for the little guy counted against him, so did his being from the traditional Labour left instead of being New Labour / Blairite. Whoever the next Labour is, they'll be a Blairite and someone who'll take Labour to the right. Where that leaves traditional Labour supporters will be something the party and those supporters need to consider.
I'd respectfully suggest that the campaign he ran on it what counted against him. His platform was put out by the media and he had an opportunity to debate this on a number of occasions. I accept that the respective media played to their readers and, if the electorate are not ready for his vision Labour can elect another like him and see how that plays out for them too.

Paul_Shepherd Dec 13th 2019 7:09 am
Re: PM Boris
 
Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12778471)
When people are repeatedly told the same anti-Corbyn and anti-Labour stuff over and over by the media, some of which Tories have also done at the time (but this is never admitted to), people will believe it. The media is supposed to hold the government to account, but few of them are anything other than Tory cheerleaders.

Unfortunately, Corbyn's history of standing up for the little guy counted against him, so did his being from the traditional Labour left instead of being New Labour / Blairite. Whoever the next Labour is, they'll be a Blairite and someone who'll take Labour to the right. Where that leaves traditional Labour supporters will be something the party and those supporters need to consider.
I didn't realise the media were anti Corbyn? thats the first I have heard of it. People just didn't want what he was offering...and his appointed shadow home secretary.... she was a an embarassment, I used to have to watch her from behind a cushion it was so cringeworthy, her alone was enough to put people off voting labour....

BEVS Dec 13th 2019 7:25 am
Re: PM Boris
 
Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd (Post 12778507)
I didn't realise the media were anti Corbyn?
They certainly were and are.

BEVS Dec 13th 2019 7:26 am
Re: PM Boris
 
Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 12778450)
1. There's no need to do it, it's a bad idea.
2. Johnson can't actually do it - except if he revives "no deal".

That reason for electing Johnson makes no sense at all. We can only hope the consequences of electing him are not too dire.
I agree with this. Smoke and mirrors for power.

DaveLovesDee Dec 13th 2019 8:04 am
Re: PM Boris
 
Originally Posted by Almost Canadian (Post 12778505)
I didn't see that at all. "He's running from the media" is what I saw, but I know you won't agree with me.
I agree the media did call out Boris avoiding being interviewed by the media, which he'd publicly agreed to do with various outlets along with the other party leaders. It would have been very noticeable by the electorate that he didn't appear as promise on all but one, and the media had to call him on it because if they hadn't, that would have been an obvious spin in favour of Boris.

I'd respectfully suggest that the campaign he ran on it what counted against him. His platform was put out by the media and he had an opportunity to debate this on a number of occasions. I accept that the respective media played to their readers and, if the electorate are not ready for his vision Labour can elect another like him and see how that plays out for them too.
His platform was mostly been chosen and agreed by Labour Party members. Should Corbyn have gone against what the party wanted? Labour had to balance what it's Leave-voting members wanted with what it's Remain-voting members wanted. Most of the other parties were for one side or the other, and this will have split the Labour vote.

The next Labour leader will be a Blairite.

Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd (Post 12778507)
I didn't realise the media were anti Corbyn? thats the first I have heard of it. People just didn't want what he was offering...and his appointed shadow home secretary.... she was a an embarassment, I used to have to watch her from behind a cushion it was so cringeworthy, her alone was enough to put people off voting labour....
The bias is there.

Dianne Abbott has made a few mistakes, but I've never seen a Tory MP being given the same treatment she regularly got in the media. Take a look at what she achieved before becoming an MP.

dave_j Dec 13th 2019 8:23 am
Re: PM Boris
 
This discussion about why the tories gained so many seats is an argument that'll go on and on to no use whatsoever, it's a waste of time.
Some will say it was Corbyn, others will say the media brainwashed the electorate, still others will say it was Russia or little green men from Mars.
None seem to be arguing that Boris won by his force of buffoonery and a popular policy.
Any excuse works if it stops you having to face the fact that incompetent opposition parties hadn't a clue what it was all about.
The truth of the matter is that the referendum went brexit because a majority were angry and felt ignored by the EU and the Westminster bubble, this election went brexit because they were still angry and demonstrably being ignored and they recognised that any party not supporting brexit were overtly and deliberately continuing to ignore them. QED.

Annetje Dec 13th 2019 8:29 am
Re: PM Boris
 
Someone on BBC QT just said he had to choose between 2 bad choices and Johnson was better than Corbyn.
Bearing in mind I was always told one does NOT choose a person but a party and their manifesto.
That seems to be forgotten now, it's like a ''Britain got talent'' competition .....

DaveLovesDee Dec 13th 2019 9:04 am
Re: PM Boris
 
Originally Posted by dave_j (Post 12778546)
This discussion about why the tories gained so many seats is an argument that'll go on and on to no use whatsoever, it's a waste of time.
Brexit fatigue was the biggest factor, but not the only one.

But the other parties do need to find out what went wrong. It's not a waste of time.

magnumpi Dec 13th 2019 9:15 am
Re: PM Boris
 
Happy Brexmas everyone still in England


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