Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12742951)

You seriously think I'm wound up about it. How sweet. What part of the language I used led you to that false conclusion?

Your post ignored the history of both the US and Canada prior to European settlers, and to say it was 'for simplicity' still ignores the facts, either through ignorance or design. The fact still remains that the original inhabitants of the land were driven aside.



How large a percentage? How many of those believe the lies that the EU is responsible for most of the UK's problems, when in fact, most of these are down to UK government decisions, both Labour and Tory. How many have actually taken the time to do their own research on what they've been told is wrong with the EU?



I'm not assuming you're uneducated or stupid, but I could assume you're too lazy to actually check the truth for yourself. You seem like you've made up your mind based on what you've read elsewhere, and you're afraid to find out you may be wrong. At least, that's my opinion. And that ties in with your point about political views formed at an early age.

Brexit is a political issue, you're right, and I'll readily admit you are. But the nature of UK politics is divisiveness. The House of Commons was deliberately laid out in an us v them layout of two sets of opposing benches. Constrast that with the EU Parliament and the Welsh Senedd, where the elected representatives sit in a roughly 3/4 semi-circle as political groupings, but each group has to work with the others to get Parliamentary business done. Whereas in the UK, it's almost always one side trying to stop the other.

We may disagree, but Brexit isn't a simple matter of leaving on X date, deal or no deal. People of all political persuasions voted Leave and voted Remain, yet it's the hardcore Leavers who were put in charge of our leaving. And there are Brexiters of deal and others of no deal on both Labour and Tory benches, and until those MPs and the public work together, nothing about Brexit will change.

Leavers and Remainers fighting each other won't fix Brexit, finding common ground will. Neither will agreeing to disagree. I accept you guys have concerns, and the EU isn't perfect, so how do we get from here to there together, because staying or leaving, it'll be all of us affected.

Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd (Post 12743089)

So....common ground at this stage is finding the best possible brexit deal for the UK.....

Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd (Post 12743089)

Well, a referendum was held, the choice has been made, and its not going to change, personally I am hoping a deal can be reached....I don't live there anymore, and have no plans to return in the forseeble future, but its the country of my birth, and probably half of my life, plus being home to my entire family, and I may want to return one day who knows, so I care greatly in what happens there.

So....common ground at this stage is finding the best possible brexit deal for the UK....I haven't got a lot of faith in Johnson to do that, as he seems to think a no deal is acceptable, which is a huge concern.... however I have heard news of a new deal being put forward, I hope so. Following this we will just have to see... given an acceptable exit deal, I think the UK will do fine outside the EU, of course its going to be a rocky begining, but I think as a country the UK will come through it, with a good future if it does, neither us will have anything to worry about from then on. We need to focus on the future now, not on what has already happened.

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12743226)

Boris does not want a deal. His instructions are to leave with no deal so now he's putting a not acceptable proposal to the EU knowing they won't accept it. Boris will say ''this deal or no deal'' so guess what, the EU will (again) be the bad one and responsible for no deal.
After a no deal there will be years and years of trade negotiations during which time the most vulnarable will suffer.
End of austerity ... laughable ... you aint seen nothing yet !

And after Brexit the UK as a country will cease to exist.

I do hope I'm wrong about all this but this is the general feeling and I fear for my family in the UK.

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12743231)

Did you not get Monday's memo? Saj has officially found the magic money tree. :)

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12743226)

Boris does not want a deal. His instructions are to leave with no deal so now he's putting a not acceptable proposal to the EU knowing they won't accept it. Boris will say ''this deal or no deal'' so guess what, the EU will (again) be the bad one and responsible for no deal.
After a no deal there will be years and years of trade negotiations during which time the most vulnarable will suffer.
End of austerity ... laughable ... you aint seen nothing yet !

And after Brexit the UK as a country will cease to exist.

I do hope I'm wrong about all this but this is the general feeling and I fear for my family in the UK.

Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd (Post 12743433)

As I said I have little faith in Johnson to execute this deal...... Im sure there is a compromise to be had, but hes not the man for the job, which is very worrying.

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 12743435)

Who would be the person for the job?

Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd (Post 12743436)

Someone who is prepared to negotiate and work with the EU....Johnson doesn't seem interested in doing that.

Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd (Post 12743436)

From what I can gather if May had not lost the majority in Parliament, her deal would have gone through... there were 6 variations of it I believe.

Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd (Post 12743436)

Someone who is prepared to negotiate and work with the EU....Johnson doesn't seem interested in doing that.

From what I can gather if May had not lost the majority in Parliament, her deal would have gone through... there were 6 variations of it I believe.

Originally Posted by jimf (Post 12743815)

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 12750258)

The front pages today
And some folk think the media doesn't influence people. How can it not when it's plastered all over like the Mail page?