PM Boris
Sep 29th 2019, 7:49 pm
#676
me/moi
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,529
Re: PM Boris
It certainly looks as though an extension will be implemented to be followed immediately by an election.
And then.. it'll be down to the voter, ignored most of the time, to decide.
Will it be Johnson, the renegade promising an end to the chaos or will it be Corbyn promising more of the same?
Johnson will only be able to win by promising no-deal to the Brexit Party, otherwise both lose out, and he'll be able to point to an obdurate EU to support this.
Labour, the fence sitters, will have to cope with will we or won't we and their turnout'll be compromised by the Stay-in Lib Dems, who will be also rans. Labour are caught in the middle and'll be squeezed until they crack.
All of this seems fairly straightforward, so like preventing a no deal, will the election be allowed or will it, as you put it, not be the responsible thing to do?
We shall see.
And then.. it'll be down to the voter, ignored most of the time, to decide.
Will it be Johnson, the renegade promising an end to the chaos or will it be Corbyn promising more of the same?
Johnson will only be able to win by promising no-deal to the Brexit Party, otherwise both lose out, and he'll be able to point to an obdurate EU to support this.
Labour, the fence sitters, will have to cope with will we or won't we and their turnout'll be compromised by the Stay-in Lib Dems, who will be also rans. Labour are caught in the middle and'll be squeezed until they crack.
All of this seems fairly straightforward, so like preventing a no deal, will the election be allowed or will it, as you put it, not be the responsible thing to do?
We shall see.
Sep 29th 2019, 11:12 pm
#677
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,020
Re: PM Boris
It certainly looks as though an extension will be implemented to be followed immediately by an election.
And then.. it'll be down to the voter, ignored most of the time, to decide.
Will it be Johnson, the renegade promising an end to the chaos or will it be Corbyn promising more of the same?
Johnson will only be able to win by promising no-deal to the Brexit Party, otherwise both lose out, and he'll be able to point to an obdurate EU to support this.
Labour, the fence sitters, will have to cope with will we or won't we and their turnout'll be compromised by the Stay-in Lib Dems, who will be also rans. Labour are caught in the middle and'll be squeezed until they crack.
All of this seems fairly straightforward, so like preventing a no deal, will the election be allowed or will it, as you put it, not be the responsible thing to do?
We shall see.
And then.. it'll be down to the voter, ignored most of the time, to decide.
Will it be Johnson, the renegade promising an end to the chaos or will it be Corbyn promising more of the same?
Johnson will only be able to win by promising no-deal to the Brexit Party, otherwise both lose out, and he'll be able to point to an obdurate EU to support this.
Labour, the fence sitters, will have to cope with will we or won't we and their turnout'll be compromised by the Stay-in Lib Dems, who will be also rans. Labour are caught in the middle and'll be squeezed until they crack.
All of this seems fairly straightforward, so like preventing a no deal, will the election be allowed or will it, as you put it, not be the responsible thing to do?
We shall see.
Sep 29th 2019, 11:48 pm
#679
Dive Bar Drunk
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 8,649
Re: PM Boris
Yes, it's a grim thought that no one trusts Johnson, no PM has been lass successful than Johnson, but in an election tomorrow Johnson would likely win. Labour really has failed the nation by not getting rid of Corbyn and offering the voters a viable alternative to Johnson.
A marginally better leader and a cancel Brexit stance would sweep the Labour party in with a landslide.
I can't see where it will all end now. About 100 years ago the Labour party surpassed the Liberals as the new natural opposition- maybe we will see something new.
Sep 30th 2019, 12:07 am
#680
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,113
Re: PM Boris
The idea that things can be simple is a leaver fantasy "a clean break" is an expression they use for leaving. It can't be. If you want easy trade then you need not to have borders and you need common standards for everything, people can come and go freely so you need common documentation for them. Administrative convergence is inevitable but that doesn't mean cultural convergence; you still can't sell jellied eels or Marmite in Greece or Germany because, culturally, people are conditioned against loving these things.
The first company I worked for was and Engineering company who were manufacturers of pressure vessels, we would often make "tweaks" in the design of our vessels to satisfy French and German design code standards so we could sell to those countries, a common European standard makes everything a lot more convenient, like a common currency does, but its not a necessity to trade.
Sep 30th 2019, 12:55 am
#681
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,020
Re: PM Boris
I agree that a clean break is a tall order....the UK has been increasingly integrated and involved with the EU, but one can hope. However I am confused as to why you would you need common documentation for the UK to trade with the EU? ..... other countries that trade with each other don't have that.... NAFTA or what ever its new agreement is called, doesn't have and an agreement like that as far as I am aware? the US Canada and Mexico have no common laws, regulations currency open borders or documentation? but still have a good trade deal between the 3 countries?
The first company I worked for was and Engineering company who were manufacturers of pressure vessels, we would often make "tweaks" in the design of our vessels to satisfy French and German design code standards so we could sell to those countries, a common European standard makes everything a lot more convenient, like a common currency does, but its not a necessity to trade.
The first company I worked for was and Engineering company who were manufacturers of pressure vessels, we would often make "tweaks" in the design of our vessels to satisfy French and German design code standards so we could sell to those countries, a common European standard makes everything a lot more convenient, like a common currency does, but its not a necessity to trade.
Common documentation of livestock is important as, without it, animals have to be inspected and certified at borders; that's where the mass slaughter of sheep comes into Brexit. Since a full set of common standards exists between the EU countries and the UK conforms at present it will be up to the UK to decide how far to diverge. I suppose a move to US gallons and 16oz pints might make sense, maybe Halal methods of slaughter, though all of these complicate trade with the EU. Other than that, I expect it'll be driven by bloody mindedness.
Common documentation of people, a shared passport, allows the absence of borders between nations; who now wants to have to buy a visa and go through an inspection just to go to France? It's a pita in going from Canada to the US.
Sep 30th 2019, 12:59 am
#682
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,020
Re: PM Boris
Johnson isn't just about Brexit, of course, steering government funds to an ineligible American he was bonking is more likely to bring him down.
Sep 30th 2019, 6:44 am
#683
Listen to the Music
Joined: Mar 2013
Location: Fraser Valley BC
Posts: 4,741
Re: PM Boris
[QUOTE=dbd33;12742021
As the UK re-adopts imperial measures and LSD currency,......
I suppose a move to US gallons and 16oz pints might make sense, maybe Halal methods of slaughter....[/QUOTE]
Pheeeewww... I can breathe a huge sigh of relief.
Until now, I thought you were making serious arguments, but no longer,
Admit it, you're a closet Leaver, it's just that you don't want anyone to know.
Come join us, we live in a big tent.
As the UK re-adopts imperial measures and LSD currency,......
I suppose a move to US gallons and 16oz pints might make sense, maybe Halal methods of slaughter....[/QUOTE]
Pheeeewww... I can breathe a huge sigh of relief.
Until now, I thought you were making serious arguments, but no longer,
Admit it, you're a closet Leaver, it's just that you don't want anyone to know.
Come join us, we live in a big tent.
Sep 30th 2019, 7:56 am
#684
Lowering the tone
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Here and there
Posts: 7,360
Re: PM Boris
Sep 30th 2019, 9:04 am
#685
Account Closed
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 26,319
Re: PM Boris
I agree that a clean break is a tall order....the UK has been increasingly integrated and involved with the EU, but one can hope. However I am confused as to why you would you need common documentation for the UK to trade with the EU? ..... other countries that trade with each other don't have that.... NAFTA or what ever its new agreement is called, doesn't have and an agreement like that as far as I am aware? the US Canada and Mexico have no common laws, regulations currency open borders or documentation? but still have a good trade deal between the 3 countries?
The first company I worked for was and Engineering company who were manufacturers of pressure vessels, we would often make "tweaks" in the design of our vessels to satisfy French and German design code standards so we could sell to those countries, a common European standard makes everything a lot more convenient, like a common currency does, but its not a necessity to trade.
The first company I worked for was and Engineering company who were manufacturers of pressure vessels, we would often make "tweaks" in the design of our vessels to satisfy French and German design code standards so we could sell to those countries, a common European standard makes everything a lot more convenient, like a common currency does, but its not a necessity to trade.
NAFTA (and its replacement CUSMA) is skewed in favor of the US. Within the EU, smaller countries are equal to the larger countries (a level playing field), and have a stronger voice in the making of those regulations.
Sep 30th 2019, 1:33 pm
#686
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: South of Calgary
Posts: 13,378
Re: PM Boris
If I manufacture and ship a product from Canada to the US, it still needs to meet all applicable US regulations, and be documented as doing so. Some of those regulations may be slightly different to Canadian ones. Common rules across multiple countries still need common documentation.
NAFTA (and its replacement CUSMA) is skewed in favor of the US. Within the EU, smaller countries are equal to the larger countries (a level playing field), and have a stronger voice in the making of those regulations.
NAFTA (and its replacement CUSMA) is skewed in favor of the US. Within the EU, smaller countries are equal to the larger countries (a level playing field), and have a stronger voice in the making of those regulations.
Sep 30th 2019, 1:38 pm
#687
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: South of Calgary
Posts: 13,378
Re: PM Boris
The idea that things can be simple is a leaver fantasy "a clean break" is an expression they use for leaving. It can't be. If you want easy trade then you need not to have borders and you need common standards for everything, people can come and go freely so you need common documentation for them. Administrative convergence is inevitable but that doesn't mean cultural convergence; you still can't sell jellied eels or Marmite in Greece or Germany because, culturally, people are conditioned against loving these things.
Has anyone seriously suggested that citizens from the UK or the EU will require a visa for vacation travel between the two blocks?
Sep 30th 2019, 2:06 pm
#688
me/moi
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,529
Re: PM Boris
The whole point of a trade agreement is to avoid the usual issues that arise when one crosses a border for the goods and services that are dealt with in the agreement. Freedom of travel of people is not necessarily tied to any such agreement. I appreciate that the EU allows such movement but, for example, Canada's agreement with the EU and TIPP does not allow for free movement of people.
Has anyone seriously suggested that citizens from the UK or the EU will require a visa for vacation travel between the two blocks?
Has anyone seriously suggested that citizens from the UK or the EU will require a visa for vacation travel between the two blocks?
Sep 30th 2019, 2:45 pm
#689
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,020
Re: PM Boris
The whole point of a trade agreement is to avoid the usual issues that arise when one crosses a border for the goods and services that are dealt with in the agreement. Freedom of travel of people is not necessarily tied to any such agreement. I appreciate that the EU allows such movement but, for example, Canada's agreement with the EU and TIPP does not allow for free movement of people.
Has anyone seriously suggested that citizens from the UK or the EU will require a visa for vacation travel between the two blocks?
Has anyone seriously suggested that citizens from the UK or the EU will require a visa for vacation travel between the two blocks?
I do understand that free movement of goods and of people are not tied to each other but they do relate; if, for example, you manufacture a product in the UK and want to sell it in the EU, there might be a need to provide supporting expertise, long or short term, for that product. That's much easier if there are no constraints on the movement of workers. Perhaps if one did not have ideal trading conditions today one might not introduce them. That's quite different from having such good conditions and choosing to give them up.
Sep 30th 2019, 2:54 pm
#690
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,113
Re: PM Boris
Of course nations trade with no commonality, the EU trades with many nations. It's just easier if things are consistent. As the UK re-adopts imperial measures and LSD currency, trades will become more complicated. Pipes and fittings will all need adaptors. No one will understand our money. Goods will have to be repackaged at Rotterdam.
Common documentation of livestock is important as, without it, animals have to be inspected and certified at borders; that's where the mass slaughter of sheep comes into Brexit. Since a full set of common standards exists between the EU countries and the UK conforms at present it will be up to the UK to decide how far to diverge. I suppose a move to US gallons and 16oz pints might make sense, maybe Halal methods of slaughter, though all of these complicate trade with the EU. Other than that, I expect it'll be driven by bloody mindedness.
Common documentation of people, a shared passport, allows the absence of borders between nations; who now wants to have to buy a visa and go through an inspection just to go to France? It's a pita in going from Canada to the US.
Common documentation of livestock is important as, without it, animals have to be inspected and certified at borders; that's where the mass slaughter of sheep comes into Brexit. Since a full set of common standards exists between the EU countries and the UK conforms at present it will be up to the UK to decide how far to diverge. I suppose a move to US gallons and 16oz pints might make sense, maybe Halal methods of slaughter, though all of these complicate trade with the EU. Other than that, I expect it'll be driven by bloody mindedness.
Common documentation of people, a shared passport, allows the absence of borders between nations; who now wants to have to buy a visa and go through an inspection just to go to France? It's a pita in going from Canada to the US.
Common regulations makes things easier and convenient, but its not a huge hurdle to overcome.....as I said in the first company I worked for, we exported to many different countries, we changed our design accordingly....and usually it didnt differ too much , its just about convenience really, but the downside of having common rules and regulations can be more than losing some convenience. For example going back to the small manufacturing company I worked for as an example,.....if smaller companies are forced to adopt new European design regulations, they may not be able to afford the cost of doing so, before hand, they had a choice weather they wanted to build a pressure vessel to another design code. . I think some of the EU rules and regulations are not in interests of some EU countries, especially the smaller less wealthy countries, but are forced to adopt them anyway....it kind of goes back to my point about culture and economic differences between the EU counties, whats suits one country may not suit another.
As for needing a visa to visit France....thats never going to happen...passport yes, visa no.