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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee
(Post 12741028)
The UK had Freeports until 2012, until the relevant UK legislation ended without being continued. Malta still has one.
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by dave_j
(Post 12741106)
Ah.. Many thanks for that, I stand corrected.
During the referendum campaign, and since then, Remainers have tried to point out these lies and misconceptions, but Leavers didn't bother listening because we weren't appealing to their emotions.... |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee
(Post 12741120)
How many other things are the EU blamed for that are equally untrue?
During the referendum campaign, and since then, Remainers have tried to point out these lies and misconceptions, but Leavers didn't bother listening because we weren't appealing to their emotions.... |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by dbd33
(Post 12741097)
Eh? Is Costco going to be banned after Brexit? If not, surely it doesn't matter when the sheep are going to slaughter, cheap sheep are still cheap sheep.
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Re: PM Boris
Can anyone explain what the non-tory MPs' objection to the WA was/is?
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee
(Post 12741024)
Was the US born as one country? I thought it began as Native Indian land, before immigrants pushed the natives out and started making territories.
Who, other than some Leavers, believe the rest of your post? Neither German or Greek culture are being changed by their EU membership, and neither will be. You misunderstood….Im am talking about the United States we know today, that was a country born after a bunch of colonies declared independence from Britain…states were added over the years but independence was basically the birth of the United States….. .thats the country I am talking about…. Its grown as one country ever since, and is bascailly the same culture, just like the United Kingdom is basically one culture. All I am saying is that you cant form a United States of Europe in such a short space of time….is a different thing altogether. Im not asking anyone to believe my post, its my opinion, no one really know what will happen in the future, we all make "guesstimations" on our personal beliefs, it same as who other than remainers will believe your posts? as I said at the end of my last post, this is a political issue and we as people all see things differently….there is no right or wrong…that’s politics…which is why you don’t talk about it in the pub! because most political issues are divisive subjects, and people are very passionate about their beliefs.. I used Germany and Greece as an example as their economies are poles apart, which has been formed from the culture of its people, and that is the point I am trying to make what suits one European country won’t suit another. |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee
(Post 12741120)
How many other things are the EU blamed for that are equally untrue?
Remember some of the untrue claims made by the Remain lobby if vote Leave had won? The Emergency budget? The Stock market collapse? The 4300pounds cost per family? Both sides stretched the truth to push their case and they may have convinced a few voters one way or the other so continually pushing the argument that lies were only made by the Leave side is untrue itself. The case I make is that none of this dented the reality that there are areas of the country that have not felt that the largesse of EU membership has made any beneficial impact into their lives and they saw little or no benefit to membership. It's clear that had Cameron taken the time to pop out from the Westminster bubble for a few minutes and ask people what they actually thought then he might thought better of acting as he did. Blaming those who voted Leave is a little like shooting the messenger, each seeks to apportion blame elsewhere. |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
(Post 12741136)
Can anyone explain what the non-tory MPs' objection to the WA was/is?
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
(Post 12741136)
Can anyone explain what the non-tory MPs' objection to the WA was/is?
https://labour.org.uk/issues/six-rea...l-bad-britain/ |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by dave_j
(Post 12741147)
It works both ways.
Remember some of the untrue claims made by the Remain lobby if vote Leave had won? The Emergency budget? The Stock market collapse? The 4300pounds cost per family? Both sides stretched the truth to push their case and they may have convinced a few voters one way or the other so continually pushing the argument that lies were only made by the Leave side is untrue itself. The case I make is that none of this dented the reality that there are areas of the country that have not felt that the largesse of EU membership has made any beneficial impact into their lives and they saw little or no benefit to membership. It's clear that had Cameron taken the time to pop out from the Westminster bubble for a few minutes and ask people what they actually thought then he might thought better of acting as he did. Blaming those who voted Leave is a little like shooting the messenger, each seeks to apportion blame elsewhere. According to the Office of National Statistics, there are 19.1 million families living in the UK. That £122 billion, then, amounts to £6387 for each family - so your estimate is actually significantly understating the burden on UK families. False claims, eh? |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by dave_j
(Post 12741147)
It works both ways.
Remember some of the untrue claims made by the Remain lobby if vote Leave had won? The Emergency budget? The Stock market collapse? The 4300pounds cost per family? As well as what Oakvillian said how can you claim something was untrue when the departure hasn't actually happened yet? It's only untrue if it becomes untrue. That's not the same as something demonstrated as an outright lie from the beginning. Just how far are you willing to go along with proven lie after proven lie, especially the one exposed this week? |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by dave_j
(Post 12741147)
It works both ways.
Remember some of the untrue claims made by the Remain lobby if vote Leave had won? The Emergency budget? The Stock market collapse? The 4300pounds cost per family? Both sides stretched the truth to push their case and they may have convinced a few voters one way or the other so continually pushing the argument that lies were only made by the Leave side is untrue itself. The case I make is that none of this dented the reality that there are areas of the country that have not felt that the largesse of EU membership has made any beneficial impact into their lives and they saw little or no benefit to membership. It's clear that had Cameron taken the time to pop out from the Westminster bubble for a few minutes and ask people what they actually thought then he might thought better of acting as he did. Blaming those who voted Leave is a little like shooting the messenger, each seeks to apportion blame elsewhere. As for shooting the messenger, Leavers weren't the messenger. You voted for this shit-show, own it!
Originally Posted by Oakvillian
(Post 12741176)
Philip Hammond, who replaced George Osborne as chancellor after the referendum, didn't produce a full budget until March 2017. But in his autumn statement, he acknowledged that the UK would borrow an additional £122 billion during the 2016-17 fiscal year, largely as a result of the economic effects of the Brexit referendum vote. He also abandoned all pretence of meeting Osborne's (probably always unachievable) aim of running a surplus by the end of the Parliament - then scheduled for May 2020, before Theresa May, with all-party support, called an early election in May 2017.
According to the Office of National Statistics, there are 19.1 million families living in the UK. That £122 billion, then, amounts to £6387 for each family - so your estimate is actually significantly understating the burden on UK families. False claims, eh?
Originally Posted by BristolUK
(Post 12741181)
£ crashed. Heard of Yellowhammer, the document about all the extra spending plans that when leaked was "base case scenario" and when the redacted version was released had mysteriously become worst case scenario?
As well as what Oakvillian said how can you claim something was untrue when the departure hasn't actually happened yet? It's only untrue if it becomes untrue. That's not the same as something demonstrated as an outright lie from the beginning. Just how far are you willing to go along with proven lie after proven lie, especially the one exposed this week? |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee
(Post 12741199)
You voted for this shit-show, own it!
My wife and I refused to take part in the referendum. We didn't vote either way. We judged that since we were living in Canada, and had no plans to return, we had no right to impose our will on those who will live with the consequences. I, personally, believe that the UK will flourish outside the EU in the medium to long term . Short term disruption will be inevitable and of course short-termism is what's driving political thought today. |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by dave_j
(Post 12741219)
For the record.
My wife and I refused to take part in the referendum. We didn't vote either way. We judged that since we were living in Canada, and had no plans to return, we had no right to impose our will on those who will live with the consequences. I, personally, believe that the UK will flourish outside the EU in the medium to long term . Short term disruption will be inevitable and of course short-termism is what's driving political thought today. :goodpost: I couldn't have said it better myself....as a person living in Canada I too didn't take part in the vote, as I thought it was unfair to impose my vote, having no plans to return to the UK....however I still have an interest owning property there, so I could have jusitfied it, but didn't..... As you say Dave, I think the UK will flourish outside of the restrictions of the EU.....after a couple of years of a bumpy road....following which, other EU countries will want out....and the EU as it stands will collapse.... Just hope the UK gets a deal. |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by dave_j
(Post 12741219)
For the record.
My wife and I refused to take part in the referendum. We didn't vote either way. We judged that since we were living in Canada, and had no plans to return, we had no right to impose our will on those who will live with the consequences. I, personally, believe that the UK will flourish outside the EU in the medium to long term . Short term disruption will be inevitable and of course short-termism is what's driving political thought today. :goodpost: I couldn't have said it better myself....as a person living in Canada I too didn't take part in the vote, as I thought it was unfair to impose my vote, having no plans to return to the UK....however I still have an interest there owning property there, so I could have jusitfied it, but didn't..... As you say Dave, I think the UK will flourish outside of the restrictions of the EU.....after a couple of years of a bumpy road....following which, other EU countries will want out....and the EU as it stands will collapse.... Just hope the UK gets a deal. |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd
(Post 12741228)
:however I still have an interest there owning property there, so I could have jusitfied it, but didn't.....
. |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
(Post 12741136)
Can anyone explain what the non-tory MPs' objection to the WA was/is?
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by dbd33
(Post 12741242)
Oh, so that's why you're a leaver. I too have considered zipping over there in November and snapping up a castle or two.
Do it! there are one or two desirable residences around for a man of your means. ;) |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd
(Post 12741228)
:goodpost:
I couldn't have said it better myself....as a person living in Canada I too didn't take part in the vote, as I thought it was unfair to impose my vote, having no plans to return to the UK....however I still have an interest there owning property there, so I could have jusitfied it, but didn't..... As you say Dave, I think the UK will flourish outside of the restrictions of the EU.....after a couple of years of a bumpy road....following which, other EU countries will want out....and the EU as it stands will collapse.... Just hope the UK gets a deal. |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Annetje
(Post 12741299)
Why are you hoping to get a deal with a EU on the brink of collapsing ?
A trade deal....the EU or what ever it becomes will always need to trade with one and other... thats all the EU ever should have been, as I said keep it simple. |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd
(Post 12741379)
A trade deal....the EU or what ever it becomes will always need to trade with one and other... thats all the EU ever should have been, as I said keep it simple.
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Re: PM Boris
Doesn't Jennifer Arcurio remind you of Stormy Daniels?
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd
(Post 12741379)
... thats all the EU ever should have been, as I said keep it simple.
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by dbd33
(Post 12741386)
The idea that things can be simple is a leaver fantasy "a clean break" is an expression they use for leaving. It can't be. If you want easy trade then you need not to have borders and you need common standards for everything, people can come and go freely so you need common documentation for them. Administrative convergence is inevitable but that doesn't mean cultural convergence; you still can't sell jellied eels or Marmite in Greece or Germany because, culturally, people are conditioned against loving these things.
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Expatrick
(Post 12741392)
Doesn't Jennifer Arcurio remind you of Stormy Daniels?
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Shard
(Post 12741394)
Even in the UK Marmite is a bit marmite.
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by BristolUK
(Post 12741409)
As are the jellied eels ;)
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by BristolUK
(Post 12741405)
In terms of both of them bonking world leaders or some other way? :lol:
Originally Posted by Shard
(Post 12741420)
Cannot think of a worse food.
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Re: PM Boris
His sister disagrees with him too.
Johnson was criticised by his sister, Rachel, who told Sky: “I do think it was particularly tasteless for those grieving a mother, MP and friend to say the best way to honour her memory is to deliver the thing she and her family campaigned against.“I think it was a very tasteless way of referring to the memory of a murdered MP, murdered by someone who said ‘Britain first’, of the far-right tendency, which you could argue is being whipped up by this sort of language. “My brother is using words like surrender and capitulation as if the people standing in the way of the blessed will of the people as defined by 17.4m votes in 2016 should be hung, drawn, quartered, tarred and feathered. I think that is highly reprehensible language to use.†|
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Expatrick
(Post 12741426)
That, and the appearance!
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Re: PM Boris
I was ok when JC became leader. How wrong I was. Margaret Hodge facing deselection is unbelievable. The lack of any real opposition is a tragedy. |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Teaandtoday5
(Post 12741656)
I was ok when JC became leader. How wrong I was. Margaret Hodge facing deselection is unbelievable. The lack of any real opposition is a tragedy. |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by dbd33
(Post 12741658)
Yes, it's a grim thought that no one trusts Johnson, no PM has been lass successful than Johnson, but in an election tomorrow Johnson would likely win. Labour really has failed the nation by not getting rid of Corbyn and offering the voters a viable alternative to Johnson.
It truly does require a flexible approach to an appreciation of UK politics to understand what's going on. |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by dave_j
(Post 12741690)
castigate the Labour party for supporting their elected leader for not wanting an election or even supporting a no confidence vote..
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by dbd33
(Post 12741767)
Labour do want an election and they want to win. The ideal for them electorally would be to let Johnson have his no deal Brexit and then have an election while the country's in chaos. However, that's not the responsible thing to do.
And then.. it'll be down to the voter, ignored most of the time, to decide. Will it be Johnson, the renegade promising an end to the chaos or will it be Corbyn promising more of the same? Johnson will only be able to win by promising no-deal to the Brexit Party, otherwise both lose out, and he'll be able to point to an obdurate EU to support this. Labour, the fence sitters, will have to cope with will we or won't we and their turnout'll be compromised by the Stay-in Lib Dems, who will be also rans. Labour are caught in the middle and'll be squeezed until they crack. All of this seems fairly straightforward, so like preventing a no deal, will the election be allowed or will it, as you put it, not be the responsible thing to do? We shall see. |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by dave_j
(Post 12741939)
It certainly looks as though an extension will be implemented to be followed immediately by an election.
And then.. it'll be down to the voter, ignored most of the time, to decide. Will it be Johnson, the renegade promising an end to the chaos or will it be Corbyn promising more of the same? Johnson will only be able to win by promising no-deal to the Brexit Party, otherwise both lose out, and he'll be able to point to an obdurate EU to support this. Labour, the fence sitters, will have to cope with will we or won't we and their turnout'll be compromised by the Stay-in Lib Dems, who will be also rans. Labour are caught in the middle and'll be squeezed until they crack. All of this seems fairly straightforward, so like preventing a no deal, will the election be allowed or will it, as you put it, not be the responsible thing to do? We shall see. |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by dave_j
(Post 12741939)
It certainly looks as though an extension will be implemented to be followed immediately by an election.
And then.. it'll be down to the voter, ignored most of the time, to decide. Will it be Johnson, the renegade promising an end to the chaos or will it be Corbyn promising more of the same? Johnson will only be able to win by promising no-deal to the Brexit Party, otherwise both lose out, and he'll be able to point to an obdurate EU to support this. Labour, the fence sitters, will have to cope with will we or won't we and their turnout'll be compromised by the Stay-in Lib Dems, who will be also rans. Labour are caught in the middle and'll be squeezed until they crack. All of this seems fairly straightforward, so like preventing a no deal, will the election be allowed or will it, as you put it, not be the responsible thing to do? We shall see. |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by Expatrick
(Post 12741393)
You really need to understand European history.
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Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by dbd33
(Post 12741658)
Yes, it's a grim thought that no one trusts Johnson, no PM has been lass successful than Johnson, but in an election tomorrow Johnson would likely win. Labour really has failed the nation by not getting rid of Corbyn and offering the voters a viable alternative to Johnson.
A marginally better leader and a cancel Brexit stance would sweep the Labour party in with a landslide. I can't see where it will all end now. About 100 years ago the Labour party surpassed the Liberals as the new natural opposition- maybe we will see something new. |
Re: PM Boris
Originally Posted by dbd33
(Post 12741386)
The idea that things can be simple is a leaver fantasy "a clean break" is an expression they use for leaving. It can't be. If you want easy trade then you need not to have borders and you need common standards for everything, people can come and go freely so you need common documentation for them. Administrative convergence is inevitable but that doesn't mean cultural convergence; you still can't sell jellied eels or Marmite in Greece or Germany because, culturally, people are conditioned against loving these things.
The first company I worked for was and Engineering company who were manufacturers of pressure vessels, we would often make "tweaks" in the design of our vessels to satisfy French and German design code standards so we could sell to those countries, a common European standard makes everything a lot more convenient, like a common currency does, but its not a necessity to trade. |
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