BristolUK

Not just the visa, the grant...not even the absence of the business operating in the UK but also the moneys dodgily received being used to "employ" a close associate of Boris.

But the bar is so low these days it will probably take something more. Perhaps he'll criticise the queen mum or Vera Lynn.

DaveLovesDee

And the EU Parliament has the authourity to reject such regulations, or to send it back to be fixed.

The EU will be implementing ETIAS from 2021. It's similar to the US ESTA and Canadian e-Ta visa waiver pre-entry checks. For those Brits who've never needed anything other than a passport to go to Benidorm, it's going to be a shock if they turn up to the airport without one and are denied boarding.

dbd33

What if the UK wants closer trade ties with the US?

Surely UK companies are in conformance with EU standards now. You seem to be making an argument for not joining the EU rather than leaving it.

DaveLovesDee

Passport, yes.
Visa, no.
Pre-entry clearance (ETIAS), most definitely from 2021. And they won't be boarding the plane or ferry to France without one.

DaveLovesDee

Let's rephrase that. UK companies are in conformance with UK standards now. Those same standards allow those companies to sell into the markets of 27 other countries with the same standards and minimal extra paperwork.

Changing UK standards post-Brexit would potentially be expensive for UK companies. But if those standards aren't likely to change, what was the reason for leaving?

dave_j

I keep hammering the same nail into the EU coffin, but many posters still don't get it.
There was a referendum and people, normal people, voted to leave.
It had nothing to do with manufacturing standards, visas, the pound etc but everything to do with whether they felt the EU and politics in general was doing anything to make their life better. Those in power, the establishment, the bankers in fact anyone doing well put the case that being in the EU was a good thing and ignored anyone who thought differently.
Well, I've got news for them, people not only didn't believe them they knew that staying in wouldn't change anything and as usual they were being told what to do and reacted against it. Any student of human nature would have understood this, but politicians etc were so absorbed with themselves that they simply couldn't conceive of the unimaginable.
In the years that have passed without any action whatsoever, feelings will have hardened and anyone promising to leave will do well. This is the real reason an election is being delayed.
Johnson might be an idiot, but I strongly suspect he understands this basic truth.

dbd33

So, in short, the case for leaving is that, although everything will be worse, it'll feel better. That truly is more stupid than electing Trump.

Shard

Thank you for summarising Dave's waffle. I spend enough time on BE as it is. Very curious argument, "we want to shoot ourselves in the foot, we've heard it's going hurt, we just don't care, let us do it...and pleased look after us when the economy tanks".

Paul_Shepherd

That sounds like another piece of EU bureaucracy.... isnt that what a passport is for? why would people need a pre entry clearance.... imagine if Canadian passport holders had to have that to enter the states?

Paul_Shepherd

Yes UK companies would be in conformance with EU standards now. Im just saying, it wont be that much of hardship to export goods to the EU after the UK leaves.....(once trade deals have been formed) I believe the UK will have more flexibility to be able to trade with other countries aswell as the EU once they leave.

To your first point,l as Canada is a metric country, its would be mo different than a Canadian manufacturing company exporting to the US... machines we built had to be in imperial....whereas other machines were metric, we had to work in both metric and imperial, its something i have done ever since working in Canada.

Almost Canadian

Are you talking about states and provinces being able to restrict citizens of the country/PRs from being able to move around within the country or non citizens/PRs being able to live and work there?

Almost Canadian

I can't disagree with what you have stated there.

Jingsamichty

That's about the sum of it.

Blue passports, Up Yours Delors!

dave_j

I agree that many reasons for the leave vote were more emotional than otherwise, but burying your head in the sand won't change the fact that it happened, ask yourself why rather than simply arguing that it was wrong or dismissing possible explanations as waffle.
Making logical arguments for staying, eg things will get worse, will make little impact and whether you like it or not the next election will be all about brexit and political parties who ignore this don't deserve to do well. For example if Labour think that party will trump leave then they're in for a shock.
You might argue that voting leave was stupid and you imply that those who voted leave are stupid. It's attitudes like this, expressed by politicians and pundits in general, that'll ensure the leave vote will harden.

Jingsamichty

Since 2016 a lot has changed, especially demographically. Pretending that 52% of the current population still want Brexit is also burying your head in the sand.