...and even if the Canadian culture is (for the sake of argument) undeveloped, the way to develop it further is integration not cultural ghettos. Although I do think with each new generation of cradles or semi-cradles Canada is moving toward that.

Is there major white flight from the cities? First I've heard (excepting Brampton), got any evidence for that?

8% is about normal. In any country there is a section of the adult community that is unemployable, for various reasons.

With whom? If I become a Mennonite am I more Canadian? If I join the Polish club am I more Canadian? If I move to BC and take six wives am I more Canadian? Learn Mandarin? Master fiddle playing? Get circumcised?

The ship has sailed mate, the country already has a diverse population and that is the best thing about it.

Yes but as well as the diversity it has a commonality, and that is the part that will develop (continue to develop) with successive generations.

I don't know about that. People move to Canada, they get old and move away, their children grow up and move away. New immigrants arrive. Even if we think there's a commonality between the people here now, and I don't see that, they're not connected to the people who will immigrate twenty years hence. I don't see any more reason for long term integration here than in other expat countries, Dubai or the UAE, for example.

Is this another DBD wind up? How about your timber-merchant man, is he a transitory Canadian too? The country would not have grown to 35 million if people were doing as you say. There is a distinct Canadian culture and a growing Canadian history. But you have to open your eyes to it.

I think that there is a bit of a gap in your thinking. Folk that go to Dubai (which is part of the UAE, BTW), go there to make money and then leave. Few stay for the long term (they are probably not allowed to anyway). They are what I would describe as Expats. I was an Expat when I lived in France. I nearly became an Expat in Bahrain (and almost in Nepal).

I have been here for a while now (13 years, which is a lot less than some but more than most on this forum). I no longer see myself as an expatriate Brit. I have put down roots. I won't be leaving.

The timber merchant is a Mennonite. He's not covered by socialised medicine, he doesn't educate his female children, he has no zip fasteners and he personally does not use powered machinery (with odd exceptions, such as the inexplicable theological tolerance for weed whackers). I'd say he illustrates diversity in that most of us are not like him and wouldn't want to be like him; I've no more in common with him than with a devout Muslim. Multiculturalism means leaving him to his eccentricities, not taking them up myself.

There is a difference in that people are obliged to leave certain countries where they work as expats, not just in the middle east but, for example, the US, whereas they choose to leave Canada. The cycle is shorter where expiration of work permit is a factor as is the certainty of leaving. Nonetheless, posters here came to Canada for the money then moved on, to France, to Arizona, to Mexico, to Norfolk. I've lost count of the number of people I knew here who are now back in their home countries, the Lebanon, Turkey, Hong Kong, Cyprus, all over. There aren't many people who relish the idea of growing old here.

I do !

Well yes, but your Canada includes Arizona.

Don't they do that before they even let you off the plane?

Over the last few decades, having found the supply of desperate europeans much reduced, Canada has had to become a good deal less choosy about the source of immigrants.

Not a very jimf thing to say!