Jericho79

DW- out of interest, how old are you? This is beginning to resemble an argument between two teenagers, and frankly, it's embarrassing.
For clarity, most muslims support sharia law. Backed up by loads of research- do your own. For clarity, i'm not saying this makes muslim people bad people.
Most muslims (according to the stats), are in favour of the death penalty for apostates. I accept a survey of 35,000 may or may not be representative, but take a rational look at it. The Pew survey asked Muslims from a variety of Muslim countries, yet didnt look at some of the more extreme countries like Saudi Arabia. Dispute it all you like, but it is what it is.

Is it the be all and end all, no? But all you have to do is google "islam and apostasy". The Pew article I found was only one example- this is what I'm trying to get across to you. These are not MY stats/figures, and they are not the only survey. There's lots out there. I think you'll feel better once you've actually taken the time to look in to in further detail.

For what it's worth, I'm not trying to convince you of anything, except perhaps to do some research. Calling people names and arguing from a position of ignorance makes you look silly... like a teenager, as referenced above.

dishwashing

Number one it warrants further consideration of how any two seemingly contradictory views stand together and some care when making dumb ass comments that have the potential to mischaracterise innocent people

Number two, it has to be reviewed against the dominant findings of religious freedom and the widely held difference of interpretations of Sharia Law and overwhelming belief in non-violence

Number three, the Pew study which surveyed 0.35% of Muslims and leads to some ambiguity on the context of those questions, based its apostasy statistics on another statistical layer 'of those who supported Sharia law the official law'. That is significant because it draws from tbose who believe in the dominance of Sharia Law above all others.

Number four, Pew really only asked the apostasy questions legitimately in six out of the twenty Muslim countries it surveyed, hardly a case for finality

Number five, the overriding emphasis was that these issues are multi-faceted, is not a case of a one number stereotype, and require some care and diligence when sprouting tabloid-like statistics; representations should be exercised with concern for the millions on millions who do not fall into these categories, including many who live and are trying to live peacefully and cohesively

And here's the actual Pew findings rather than Jericho's pulled out oh his ass statistic

Quotes

Penalty for Converting to Another Faith

Compared with attitudes toward applying sharia in the domestic or criminal spheres, Muslims in the countries surveyed are significantly less supportive of the death penalty for converts. Nevertheless, in six of the 20 countries where there are adequate samples for analysis, at least half of those who favor making Islamic law the official law also support executing apostates.

Taking the life of those who abandon Islam is most widely supported in Egypt (86%) and Jordan (82%). Roughly two-thirds who want sharia to be the law of the land also back this penalty in the Palestinian territories (66%). In the other countries surveyed in the Middle East-North Africa region, fewer than half take this view.

In the South Asian countries of Afghanistan and Pakistan, strong majorities of those who favor making Islamic law the official law of the land also approve of executing apostates (79% and 76%, respectively). However, in Bangladesh far fewer (44%) share this view.

A majority of Malaysian Muslims (62%) who want to see sharia as their country’s official law also support taking the lives of those who convert to other faiths. But fewer take this position in neighboring Thailand (27%) and Indonesia (18%).

In Central Asia as well as Southern and Eastern Europe, only in Tajikistan (22%) do more than a fifth of Muslims who want sharia as the official law of the land also condone the execution of apostates. Support for killing converts to other faiths falls below one-in-ten in Albania (8%) and Kazakhstan (4%).

Shard

Nail. Head.

Jericho I think it might be an idea to invoke the "AC dictum" (find one of Almost Canadian's posts, and look up the signature line).

Jericho79

DW, I feel as though I should help you on this, so that rather than direct your anger at me, you can consider the harm that religion (all religion) can inflict on civilised people. Here's some links FYI:

Islam, Saudi and apostasy - Opinion - Al Jazeera English
This article looks at the contradiction between supporting religious freedom vs the death penalty for apostates. I'm not a Muslim and havent read the Qur'an so I cant make sense of it either. However, personally, I feel the question "do you support the death penalty for apostates" is clearer than "do you support religious freedom". Religious freedom can be interepreted in many ways, the other question is pretty straightforward.

Islam and Freedom of Religion
This is slightly more concerning. I suspect there's an anti-islam agenda with this website, but all they're doing is providing links to other sites- of particular interest, the links to news stories at the bottom of the page.

Islam and Apostasy - WikiIslam
Looks like a really good breakdown of the subject

One final comment- I read yesterday that Saudi Arabia has now added atheists and non-violent protesters in the same group as terrorists. Officially, if I was living in Saudi Arabia, I could now be tried and killed for being an atheist.

dishwashing

Yes, feel free to read the Pew study you were initially claiming to be the basis of your 'facts', and own up to your screw up when you grow up.

Obfuscation techniques tactics perhaps do work with apes

Greenhill

So what's everyone having for lunch today?

dishwashing

Greenhill

I'm thinking about a steak and cheese melt. Fully loaded with the veggies and southwest sauce. Salt and pepper and maybe, just maybe, one jalapeno.

Which bread? Hmmm. The 9 grain is so tasty.

Sue

Let's not get personal folks. Thanks

dishwashing

Sounds delicious, Greenhill! I think I'll get a bite out today. Will you be making this lunch yourself?

Sally Redux

That is what the Al Jazeera article is about. Quite a good summary I thought.

The death penalty for apostasy relies at the core of it on an authentically verified Hadith from Prophet Muhammad who said, "Whoever changes his religion kill him." This statement, however, would seem to contradict numerous verses in the Quran that guarantee freedom of belief, few of which include "There is no compulsion in religion" [2:256], and "Whoever so wills may believe and whoever so wills may deny" [18:29]...

Although the above-mentioned Hadith is authentic, it is also established that Prophet Muhammad never ordered the death penalty to be carried out on people known during his time to have apostatised...

Given how the Prophet treated individuals who entered and left Islam, and the numerous verses in the Quran guaranteeing freedom of belief, the Hadith decreeing a death penalty for apostasy becomes more puzzling. This can be resolved by turning to another authentic Hadith where this penalty is mentioned, but with a qualifier: "…the one leaving his religion and abandoning the group". In addition, another verse in the Quran, which can further resolve this conundrum speaks to a strategy adopted by a rival sect in Medina in one of their attempts to create a schism within the nascent Muslim community by pretending to enter Islam in the morning, then leaving it in the evening [3:72].

It appears to have grown out of a historical matter of political expediency.

Shard

This supports the idea that the death cultists (ISIS and the like) twist the religion for their own aims. Nevertheless, the fact that there is plenty of "source code" available to them, does not help. Ultimately, like all religion, Islam should be dismantled, and given the propensity for radical hijack, sooner rather than later. And yes, I know that's not going to happen for many decades, but its demise can be encouraged.

A found this article by Fareed Zakaria to be a fairly balanced take on the current controversies:

Fareed Zakaria: Let’s be honest, Islam has a problem right now - The Washington Post

Sally Redux

I love Bill Maher but I think he is wrong on this.

I find Fareed Zakaria to be excellent for balanced analysis.

It's all rubbish, of course, and should be dismantled, but the knock-on effect of the West's senseless wars also cannot be discounted.

Shard

Yes, I like Bill too, but he might be getting a bit too caught up in the argument. It's the first thing of Fareed's I've read, I found him a bit lightweight when I have seen him on CNN, but I will pay a bit more attention.

Jericho79

I agree. I read an article/interview recently which compared the extremism we are seeing in the Middle East, with the gang problem and riots we are seeing in the West. It's almost always disaffected youth, who are mostly poor and comparatively uneducated. It was an interesting comparison...