CANADA DAY 2021 ... awkward ! Apparently.

Two more Catholic churches burnt apparently, not sure if these are the same as those reported, but this was yesterday.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...churches-fires

Yep, old news from post #73, they burned early on Saturday morning.
Edit; I think I did hear the other day that a 5th one had burned, but I haven't tried to find the story yet.
Here it is, but nowhere near the others.
https://bc.ctvnews.ca/5th-church-fir...rcmp-1.5487860

All the other churches paid their share, but the Catholics fought tooth and nail to get out of it, and it worked. In 2005 as the Paul Martin government was falling, they struggled to complete the Indian Residential Schools Settlement Agreement. The Catholic church, by holding out, was able to wrangle a $1.2M buyout (they did pay and saved themselves about $21M). Small money in an outfit like that; they built a cathedral in Saskatoon that cost $28M. I think they did pay the $29M initial lump sum payment, but the second one that was supposed to be $25M was bargained down to "in kind services" and they saved there. Out of the $3B paid to 28,000 survivors they were supposed to be on the hook for 30%, but I haven't seen anything saying they were good for it.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saska...tion-1.6082935

Chickenpox, measles and mumps parties were common in the 40s and 50s in the UK, I had all three in a short period, about 6 months. One friend didn't catch mumps till he was 14, and yes he had to have time off school because he developed 'big balls' as orchitis was called. No idea if he was rendered sterile, he died in his late 20s, he was married but no children, whether they were trying is another matter.

Some more graves were just discovered in the BC interior

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...rior-1.6085990

Why are the graves unmarked ?

It means the names of the children were not recorded on a headstone, marker, nameplate etc. No records whatsoever. Like someone burying their dead cat at the end of their garden. Absolutely disgusting.

But if you mean, why didn't the Schools put a headstone down or send the body back to the parents, that I have no idea.

I think I read somewhere that there were so e headstones, and then they were removed in the 60s. What I wonder is how many died from disease and how many from abuse ... it's hard to believe it was a systematic death camp. And yet, if not, why not mark the graves? Also, it wasn't that long ago, a century? so why was there not more action demanded by the FN in (say) the 60s or 70s?

Because, to be brutally honest, no-one would have believed them.

Yes, there were mumbles around, but for far too many people, they were "just the Indians".

Having lived here since 1968, I can tell you quite honestly, that many ordinary people knew about the Residential Schools, although not about the abuse ........... other Canadians were convinced by the authorities, whether that be the governments or the churches, that the schools were doing good things.

Maybe I know a little more than many people because I found myself interested in the BC First Nations very soon after we came here, and so I've paid a lot of attention to them, read a lot of books, articles etc, for the last 50 years. I was especially interested in their ways of life, their use of herbs and many plants for medicinal purposes, their oral stories.

The saddest thing to me is that it is only the news of these now at least 900 unmarked graves that has drawn attention to the situation. Not many people paid more than the usual cursory attention to any of the reports coming out of the Missing Women or Reconciliation investigations.

How many of you know how many missing FN women there are? Plus how many more are going missing every year? It's because no-one really cares.

Even this will disappear from the major interest very soon.

How many British back in the day knew what the British forces and churches did in the "colonies", educating the "natives"???

It's all the same, and it makes me despair for what is going to happen here.

When did you first become aware that there were large numbers of deaths attributed to the residential schools? Were there articles from the FN community in the 70s alleging this? If these deaths were happening in (say) the 1920s the parents would still be around in the 60s and 70s, and they must have had something to say about it??

This is quite a hard one to answer in a definitive way Shard and that is for & from any country with this. Sometimes a person will know because they were simply a part of the time; or had boots on that ground ; or had skin in the happening ; or were in the telling ; or simply were around the community(ies) . Not everything is documented .Not everything is or can be protested. Not everything will be spoken aloud ,nor written . Not everything can be stopped, or actioned or will be heard.

I came in here looking for the post re unmarked graves which I may get back to.

With regard to these types of 'residential schools'. The death count per % population would inevitably be higher than for those out in their own communities because of the complete and utter impoverished neglect & lack of nurture or respect for those lives.

Scilly has actually written with insight and wisely. Not everyone has or had the luxury of making waves and sounds about injustice and abuse. Now - it shouldn't be that way but it was and still is. Until everyone stops looking to reason something rotten and bad away for all sorts of vapid reasons and reasoning and stands up to say this was and is wrong, then nothing will really actually ever change.

As Scilly says - I despair.

So. I am going to try and explain this best I can. This is from my knowledge of certain matters relating directly to my family + genealogy research which includes burial records. It may not totally pertain to Canada but I cannot see why not.

Graves and graveyards work to a plan. This is to ensure those going into said plot are supposed to go there but also so that a plot might not be redug for another entry only to find a partially decomposed body being somewhat exhumed.

Some graves will contain more than one person. All graves & burial therein should be recorded . Not all graves will be marked. Some will be unmarked . However all graves should be recorded. Those records should still be around if not destroyed in some way.

Some bodies will have been buried in the ground without note of any sort . That is not a recorded grave. It is simply an in-ground charnel, for want of a better word. Disposal !


Which burial site are you referring to. There is a graveyard which was used from before a residential school was in place. So some of these graves perhaps did have a memorial stone . These should not have been removed without permission. That does preclude that place from receiving un-noted and unrecorded bodies.

Impoverished neglect and abuse leads to un-necessary death in large numbers . Lucky ones survived against quite some odds. ( Were they lucky ? No )

Those in charge did not care . It wasn't about nurture . It was a careless disregard. A body count. A $$ numbers exercise. These kids were not seen as being of any worth.

Because these deaths may not have been thought to have been worthy of 'bother'.

Umms. The Irish had uprisings which didn't go down too well either.

As Scilly pointed out , FNs may well have, but it fell on deaf ears. No power = no pressure . Also some of this was less than 100 yrs ago. Far less. It probably still would be suppressed as nothing worth bothering much with but for new tech.

Thanks for the comments BEVS. Certainly we are at the point where everyone is now saying "this was wrong" ... I am trying to fathom why it wasn't said before. Was it a cover-up, was it lack of organization and power, was it indifference ? So the starting point is who knew what ? (in the authorities, within the FN, within the general public). And how extensive was the abuse as opposed to common disease ? Given the short history of modern Canada, it's essential that this tragic episode is assessed objectively rather than assume it's more brutish European colonialism (although I wouldn't rule that assessment out either).
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Whoosh! Another church; this one in Alberta.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreak...to_flames_and/