scilly

Interesting to read this morning that the Kamloops band plan to keep the building, not demolish it as some other bands have done.

They say it will remain as a memorial to, and reminder of, past history.

Shard

A start and an absolute minimum would be clean drinking water. And by focussing on that one issue it would lay the groundwork for how to make these communities economically self sufficient (not an easy task). Assimilation is the modern and coherent solution, but the indegenous communities, like others elsewhere, want to protect their culture.

As for the residental schools deaths, the truth does need to to be established, whether there is anyone to hold accountable or not.

scrubbedexpat091

Obviously the US isn't perfect by any means, but seems Native American tribes have more right to self-determination, or sovereignty within their borders and have the autonomy to collect and spend their own tax dollars, to provide their own education, judiciary, and law enforcement, and to self-govern without the interference of federal agents from the Bureau of Indian Affairs .

Seems in Canada the First Nations don't have that same level of sovernignty?

https://harvardpolitics.com/a-progre...enous-peoples/

caretaker

That's a very good article.

Shard

Sovereignty is very hard to define when it's within a nation state. Canada's "interference" is the flip-side of the social safety net provided to all Canadians. I'd agree that Canada's approach is too heavy on the symbolism though, and am aghast to read that this practice of regularly recognizing FN lands is now commonplace in the schools.

OrangeMango

The problem is that it's not exactly the first time that the Catholic Church is involved in such a matter.

I am aware of similar things in the Republic of Ireland, most recently the Mother and Baby Home Bessborough near Cork.

scilly

No they don't have the same degree of autonomy, YET. It's slowly but surely coming.

However, Frist Nations in the US were also driven off the home lands and put on to reserves, and were under some sort of control for many years. There were Residential Schools. I'm not sure that anyone has really dug into what happened in those.

We were in Arizona about 15/16 years ago, staying with friends. The wife took me on a tour of the "local" Indian Residential Schools which had just been turned into a Museum. Lots of old photographs, maps, etc, classrooms set up as in the old days, dormitories, etc.

Guess what?

Every photo that had children in it, showed happy smiling faces on the children, and grim-faced nuns standing behind them, with 1 or 2 beaming priests.

That's exactly what the original photos seen by the wider Canadian public were shown.

I had to wonder, and actually said it to my friend, ........ what is the truth behind that school, and others in the US?

BEVS

My missing niece

Siouxie

In Canada it wasn't just the Catholic Church that ran the Residential Schools.. from the map explanation.. (Non denominational were Federal schools) So many tragic, unnecessary deaths.. so many lives ruined by being stolen away from parents.. despicable acts..

caretaker

I'll bet the churches decided to put their money/effort into where their support was (so money made could go to their own), so if there was a big United Church congregation in Broadview and they were outnumbered everywhere else, they applied to run the school there. I didn't know the Regina residential school was Presbyterian, but after a little searching I see they were very big here 140 years ago. I was surprised at the diversity; always thought the Anglicans had most of the residential schools here but not so.

Shard

Has there been any analysis into how many deaths were due to disease and how many due to actual murder/abuse?

scilly

Now, what do you think???

The Catholics are not the only ones not turning over full records to either the First Nations or the Government or the Truth and Reconciliation Committee.

Many of the records that have been seen apparently only not the death of "Indian girl" (YES, only that), or "Elsie, age 10". Often absolutely no indication of cause.

IF the bones that are found can be forensically examined, then it may be possible that there might be signs of abuse if any occurred, eg signs of bones broken but healed over a period of time. Malnutrition can show up in the way bones have developed.

But that kind of examination will depend on whether the First Nations want the bones to be so handled. Some might , others not.

caretaker

They don't have to prove malnutrition, there are too many similar accounts for any doubt. The kids that are already skinny and sick are first to go in any epidemic.

Shard

I meant in a more general sense. One of the early new reports I saw on this suggested that childhood disease was prevalent at the time. Perhaps other public schools and orphanages have records that can help shed light on the extent of this tragedy.

scilly

I really doubt it.

All I've seen, and I forget where I read it was that deaths in Residential Schools were almost invariably higher than those in surrounding communities, whether they be First Nations or not.

Childhood diseases were prevalent everywhere back then, even in the best of homes, but spread especially quickly when people were living very closely together, eg the poor and especially in the schools (and probably orphanages and workhouses) and may well not have been treated .............. ie, TB, scarlet fever, chicken pox, influenza, etc.

I mean literally every child was subject to all those diseases that you have been vaccinated against .................. those vaccines were not known even when I was a child in the 40s and early 50s.

Children were often sent to a, for example, "chicken pox party" to be sure they caught it early. I don't think my mother sent me to such a party, but I certainly remember having chicken pox (and one tiny scar on my temple to remind me). I also had measles and rubella (which was then called "german measles" ............ can remember being absolutely horrified when Mum told me that was what I had!). Mumps was the really bad one for boys, leading to a lot of men becoming sterile.

The first vaccine I had was the polio vaccine, 3 doses with 2 of them being given on a sugar cube.

My mother was born in 1903 and had scarlet fever when about 9 or 10 years old, and had to be sent away for treatment because it was so contagious.

TB was rife in lots of places, as it still is today even in parts of Canada ....... living in close quarters meant it spread rapidly. It is particularly common on First Nations Reserves and in the North, where people are living in very poor housing, aith too many living together. It's easily treatable now although it mean death back in the day.