Novocastrian

Some negotiations are easier than others, among the easiest being between two parties entering a process in a spirit of goodwill.

What the UK is getting into now is quite other. An arrogant, ignorant party who believes that the other 27 parties need it more than it needs them and who apparently thinks that it is inherently on superior moral grounds by virtue of being British.

They're wrong.

BristolUK

But it would if there was an agreement for it to apply both ways. That's rather the point isn't it? If the UK was offered something for their citizens, the UK would then agree that EU citizens could have the same advantages.

That's what negotiation is. Is it likely that the UK gov would grant rights to EU citizens but not expect something in return?

Isn't no rights for either party or the same rights for both parties the most likely outcome or will we have EU citizens free to continue their lives in the UK but UK citizens not free to enjoy the same rights n Europe. That wouldn't go down very well with the Farage crowd.

Former Lancastrian

Lets all take a deep breath and relax just for a moment.

BREXIT has not officially happened Yet and there are doubts that Article 50 will actually go ahead although the PM is expected to trigger it this month.

I have no horse in this race so I have no control over what happens. As an ex Brit I think Im allowed to have an opinion.

Now if all the stars are in alinement and the unicorns and fairies get together just think about this scenario without laughing your ass off.

Article 50 is triggered and the UK leaves the EU. Fast forward say 5 years.
Unemployment is at its lowest levels, people are working in higher paid jobs and everyone is walking around with smiles on their faces. The tax system is fair to everyone and you can actually save money and afford to buy a house especially in London.
Anti immigrant sentiment is no longer a problem and people are clamouring to move to the UK and work or just visit the UK. Everyone in the UK agrees the UK is the best country again and Britain was made Great again

What is wrong with this scenario?

Now of course if this was to happen the Leavers would be going See Remainers you were wrong.

Of course if the reverse happens and the UK ends up in the toilet the Remainers would have every right to be pissed at the Leavers unless they had moved to other countries.

Does anyone on BE really know what is going to happen and if so why aren't you the PM

At least the UK doesn't have Donald trump running the country or would you prefer a Justin Trudeau running the UK.

Ridicule me all you like I DONT CARE.

Novocastrian

What's wrong is that it is delusional.

BristolUK

I see you've changed your tune from "you live in Canada now, what's it to you?" then.

Former Lancastrian

Not at all I still consider myself a Brit but now living in Canada with a Canadian passport.

If I was to say something like I really don't give a **** as to what happens in the UK and to the people living in the UK I would probably get lynched.
I still have relatives in the UK so I sort of care about what happens to them but they were given the opportunity to vote and now we have seen the result of that vote. It doesn't directly affect me so yes I can appear to be somewhat smug but I have no say in what happens in or to the UK.

Former Lancastrian

Of course it is but can you say for certainty it won't happen and if it does happen can I call you out on it Some leavers think it could happen while most remainers are saying it won't happen.

All Im saying nobody knows what will happen.

Novocastrian

Only the delusional ones.

Shard

Assuming the EU itself doesn't implode, five years from now the UK will still be trying to hammer out trade terms with the EU that are come close to what we enjoy now. The auto industry and major manufacturing will be hollowed out as companies re-locate to the larger market. Financial services will see business slipping away to the Continent, whilst international banks will shift their gravity towards Germany. Less employment, lower tax base, continued welfare cuts. Government likely to lower corporate tax rates, but raise interest rates to fund a deficit, but exacerbate fiscal problems. Smiles will be in short supply. The xenophobes will still be muttering about immigrants, this time from further afield, because that's what they do.

Novocastrian

hmmm...on reflection that's probably my idea of "the best possible deal" for the UK.

dave_j

The EU is a beaurocratic nightmare, run for the benefit of beaurocrats, aided and abetted by a weak political class at the expense of the citizenry.
EU beaurocrats have demonstrated a mean minded streak that will seek to punish the UK because for them it's a personal struggle that could see them losing the power that they currently hold and they seek to build in the future.
I don't see that it'll be in their interest to agree to anything short of making sure that brexit doesn't become the preferred model for other nationalistically minded states.
We are dealing here with unreasonable people seeking to hold together a union whose flawed model cannot stand and like Canute they won't accept that they don't rule by divine right until the tide comes in and sweeps them away.
I think that May understands this and is preparing the nation for a clean break. I suspect she has abandoned the idea that the more pragmatically minded european corporate leadership will be able to influence those who will conduct 'negociations' and that more moderate policies should prevail.
I'm afraid she's quite right, Brexit will mean Brexit, with a capital B.
If the greeks had just a little more backbone after Tsipras won the election and declared their own grexit, they would now be climbing out of the hole instead of having the EU digging it deeper and deeper. The greek example clearly demonstrates the cloud cuckoo land that these EU beaurocrats live in and the weakness that the political class demonstrates when confronted by them.

Novocastrian

Folk might take your ranting more seriously if you learned how to spell bureaucrats.

One or two other minor flaws, Canute sat on the beach with the high tide approaching precisely to demonstrate to his court that, despite being King, he wasn't capable of influencing such things as the tides.

Thank you for the clarification that Brexit means Brexit with a capital B, but I note that greeks and grexit don't warrant such an honour. You may also have forgotten that Grexit concerned a possible withdrawal from the eurozone, not from the EU.

Have a nice Horlicks and get some rest. You need it.

dave_j

I thought my rant would raise a hackle, you rarely fail to bite. Nevertheless, I note that you're more concerned with technicalities than the gist of the rant. We will see in a few years whether the vindictive nature of the beast has held sway.
Personally, although I no longer live in the UK and didn't take part in the referendum, I think the UK will do very well outside of the EU.
As for the greeks, although I accept the view that grexit was primarily linked to leaving the eurozone, at least one greek political party was prepared to consider leaving the EU and the one might very well have led to the other.
I'm putting aside my Horlicks in favour of wine, but that will need to wait a few hours while the earth spins.

Novocastrian

I hope the Earth keeps spinning better that the frothing beleavers.

Stinkypup

At least his sentences make sense