Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Canada > The Maple Leaf
Reload this Page >

Interesting post Brexit development

Interesting post Brexit development

Old Nov 9th 2016, 11:52 am
  #1  
Oscar nominated
Thread Starter
 
BristolUK's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 41,057
BristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond repute
Default Interesting post Brexit development

EU citizenship proposal could guarantee rights in Europe after Brexit (full article)

The European parliament is to review a proposal for an associate EU citizenship open to nationals of a country that has left the union but who want to stay part of the European project and retain some of their EU rights.......

......“The idea is simply to guarantee those who want it some of the same rights they had as full EU citizens, including the right of residence in the EU, and to be able to vote in European elections and be represented by an MEP.”

Last month, the Guardian reported a huge rise in the number of Britons seeking citizenship in other EU countries, with at least 2,800 Britons across 18 countries applying to secure their post-Brexit status in the first eight months of 2016 – an increase of more than 250% on numbers recorded in 2015.

The amendment, for which Goerens hopes to find wide parliamentary backing and which MEPs could vote on early in the new year, proposes a European associate citizenship “for those who feel and wish to be part of the European project but are nationals of a former member state”.
Kind of an opt out of Brexit
BristolUK is offline  
Old Nov 9th 2016, 12:08 pm
  #2  
Pacifist Ape
 
Shard's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 22,845
Shard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Interesting post Brexit development

Yes, saw that. Where do i sign?
Shard is offline  
Old Nov 9th 2016, 12:44 pm
  #3  
Oscar nominated
Thread Starter
 
BristolUK's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 41,057
BristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Interesting post Brexit development

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Where do i sign?
On this piece of paper. I'll fill out the rest for you

What's especially interesting about it is the reference to a five-fold increase in Brits applying for citizenship across 18 countries, presumably those with established connections to those countries; most likely because that's where they live.

Unless I missed something, this proposal would appear to allow the granting of 'associate citizenship' simply because they want to having been a citizen of a former member state.

I wonder how some of the more extreme Brexiters would view anyone taking up such an option. Brussels collaborator?

I favour Bresistance.

Last edited by BristolUK; Nov 9th 2016 at 12:47 pm.
BristolUK is offline  
Old Nov 9th 2016, 1:08 pm
  #4  
Pacifist Ape
 
Shard's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 22,845
Shard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Interesting post Brexit development

It would be interesting politically if a vast number of Brits signed up for it, as it would call into question the referendum result. Although it remains to be seen whether such a associate citizenship is feasible in the first place.
Shard is offline  
Old Nov 9th 2016, 1:45 pm
  #5  
Proudly Scarberian
 
Pizzawheel's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2014
Location: Scarberia
Posts: 2,180
Pizzawheel has a reputation beyond reputePizzawheel has a reputation beyond reputePizzawheel has a reputation beyond reputePizzawheel has a reputation beyond reputePizzawheel has a reputation beyond reputePizzawheel has a reputation beyond reputePizzawheel has a reputation beyond reputePizzawheel has a reputation beyond reputePizzawheel has a reputation beyond reputePizzawheel has a reputation beyond reputePizzawheel has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Interesting post Brexit development

It looks too much like a one-way deal to me, so I'm not sure ho it could fly.

I'm hoping that Scotland with adopt similarly friendly citizenship rules post-split to Eire now, ie all Northern Irish are immediately entitled to Irish citizenship. Hopefully Scotland will do the same for British Scots when Britain is abolished, since my ancestry is probably to circumstantial to use for a scrutinised application.
Pizzawheel is offline  
Old Nov 9th 2016, 2:09 pm
  #6  
Oscar nominated
Thread Starter
 
BristolUK's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 41,057
BristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Interesting post Brexit development

Maybe it won't get much attention in Europe and it'll get passed before anyone realises it. And it could be a nice fund raiser.

Another thought that occurs is that one of the main things that has caused bitterness is the potential loss of the right to live and work in Europe. If a country can leave the EU while its citizens retain those rights, it makes it a bit easier for a country to leave.

One assumes the EU won't want to make that easier so may not go for this idea.

But...
The plan, tabled by a liberal MEP from Luxembourg, could mean British citizens who opt for the new status would be able to continue to travel freely and live on the continent – rights that may no longer be automatic after Brexit.

“It’s clear the UK is divided, and many people want to remain part of Europe,” said Charles Goerens, who proposed amendment 882 to a draft report by the parliament’s constitutional affairs committee on possible changes to “the current institutional set-up” of the European Union.
It's a very nice thought isn't it. I don't mean a nice thought as in a good idea (although it is a very nice idea), I mean it shows concern for people who were 'previously' EU citizens and would like to remain so.

It's such a nice thought from an organisation that one wonders who wouldn't want to be a member of it.
BristolUK is offline  
Old Nov 9th 2016, 2:38 pm
  #7  
Bex in the city
 
beckiwoo's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 3,896
beckiwoo has a reputation beyond reputebeckiwoo has a reputation beyond reputebeckiwoo has a reputation beyond reputebeckiwoo has a reputation beyond reputebeckiwoo has a reputation beyond reputebeckiwoo has a reputation beyond reputebeckiwoo has a reputation beyond reputebeckiwoo has a reputation beyond reputebeckiwoo has a reputation beyond reputebeckiwoo has a reputation beyond reputebeckiwoo has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Interesting post Brexit development

So what happens if you only have English roots but you want to stay part of Europe?
beckiwoo is offline  
Old Nov 9th 2016, 2:56 pm
  #8  
Oscar nominated
Thread Starter
 
BristolUK's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 41,057
BristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Interesting post Brexit development

Originally Posted by beckiwoo View Post
So what happens if you only have English roots but you want to stay part of Europe?
Before I came to Canada I had planned to take early retirement and live in Spain.

The way I'm reading it is that being a Brit and therefore a citizen of a member state of the EU and, therefore, a citizen of the EU, if the country then leaves the EU, the individual citizen may retain their status by being an associate citizen of the EU.

So Brexit wouldn't necessarily stop me living in Spain. I would have preferred Nice area, France but "Vancouver style" prices, ya know?

I suppose it would be a bit like being a PR of Canada and no longer qualifying to be a Canadian Citizen but still being a PR.
BristolUK is offline  
Old Nov 9th 2016, 3:17 pm
  #9  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Almost Canadian's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: South of Calgary
Posts: 13,286
Almost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Interesting post Brexit development

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
It would be interesting politically if a vast number of Brits signed up for it, as it would call into question the referendum result. Although it remains to be seen whether such a associate citizenship is feasible in the first place.
Is there any question about the result?
Almost Canadian is offline  
Old Nov 9th 2016, 3:21 pm
  #10  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Almost Canadian's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: South of Calgary
Posts: 13,286
Almost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Interesting post Brexit development

Originally Posted by beckiwoo View Post
So what happens if you only have English roots but you want to stay part of Europe?
If one wanted to immigrate to a country in Europe one would apply to do so in much the same way as one did prior to the free movement of workers.

It will not be the end of the world although, of course, one would have to jump through whatever hurdles the destination country wish to put up, much in the same way as one does now when, for example, wishing to establish one's profession in countries such as France who, as can be seen from the mountains of caselaw in the ECJ, routinely refuse to acknowledge qualifications earned outside of France, despite the fact that the rules of the EU specifically prohibit such action.

Storm in a teacup and all that
Almost Canadian is offline  
Old Nov 9th 2016, 5:03 pm
  #11  
 
BritInParis's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Not in Paris
Posts: 17,450
BritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Interesting post Brexit development

As I mentioned in another thread on the same proposal, it's pure fantasy.
BritInParis is offline  
Old Nov 9th 2016, 5:24 pm
  #12  
Oscar nominated
Thread Starter
 
BristolUK's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 41,057
BristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Interesting post Brexit development

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian View Post
If one wanted to immigrate to a country in Europe one would apply to do so in much the same way as one did prior to the free movement of workers.
But this amendment would actually mean that wasn't necessary. Certainly there would likely be an application process, as one applies for a passport, but it appears to be saying that being a citizen of a former member state, one would would qualify.

...of course, one would have to jump through whatever hurdles...in the same way as one does now when, for example, wishing to establish one's profession in countries such as France...
With the important difference between working in one's profession as opposed to the more straightforward option of simply working.
BristolUK is offline  
Old Nov 10th 2016, 11:44 am
  #13  
Part Time Poster
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Worcestershire
Posts: 4,219
MikeUK has a reputation beyond reputeMikeUK has a reputation beyond reputeMikeUK has a reputation beyond reputeMikeUK has a reputation beyond reputeMikeUK has a reputation beyond reputeMikeUK has a reputation beyond reputeMikeUK has a reputation beyond reputeMikeUK has a reputation beyond reputeMikeUK has a reputation beyond reputeMikeUK has a reputation beyond reputeMikeUK has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Interesting post Brexit development

Originally Posted by BritInParis View Post
As I mentioned in another thread on the same proposal, it's pure fantasy.
I think an interesting legal position


Currently I'm living in the UK as a British citizen and at this time I am also a EU citizen


Does the UK leaving > remove my right to EU citizenship ?


what this considers is my choice to ask to retain it


The UK assumes that you want to retain your citizenship when you adopt another one, however the US doesn't and expect you to hold only one !


this would allow many to hold both a UK and EU citizenship post Brexit, why is this so odd ? its fit many normal national citizenships
and I would imagine it would only apply to those alive during EU membership


Standard legal stuff IMHO
MikeUK is offline  
Old Nov 10th 2016, 12:03 pm
  #14  
Oscar nominated
Thread Starter
 
BristolUK's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 41,057
BristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Interesting post Brexit development

Originally Posted by MikeUK View Post
Currently I'm living in the UK as a British citizen and at this time I am also a EU citizen.Does the UK leaving > remove my right to EU citizenship ?

what this considers is my choice to ask to retain it
An excellent point. Very succinct.

The major reason for people thinking it won't go ahead is that it wouldn't be a reciprocal arrangement. Well, it very well might be, we don't know yet. Thoughts expressed in the UK so far suggest it might or, at least EU citizens in the UK might retain rights in the UK.

But there are two things that occur. One is that the idea applies to citizens of any country leaving the EU, not just one; why should it be reciprocated?

The second point is that there are many things, in Europe, over decades that are not reciprocal. Ever since we joined, there have been many social security benefits available to other Europeans in the UK with no equivalent available to Brits when in the rest of Europe. Ditto for NHS and other medical or public services.
BristolUK is offline  
Old Nov 10th 2016, 12:59 pm
  #15  
Pacifist Ape
 
Shard's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 22,845
Shard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Interesting post Brexit development

So many issues though, BUK (that's you, BristolUK )...wouldn't the EU see this as the ultimate "cake and eat it" affording Brits mobility rights, whilst Britain slams the door on continental Europeans? Taxation, would the EU make some provision to impose a "EU tax" on Brits who opt in (and who knows, this could become a founding principle for the superstate)? Would May and the stooges even permit such a joint citizenry? Personally,I like the idea, but think it's half baked, or probably even one quarter baked.
Shard is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.