Originally Posted by canadian_critic (Post 9441330)

I think we're arguing two different points here. I'm talking about widespread lack of responsibility, not saying all kids are thugs. I AM, however, saying that there's every likelihood that the vandalism and violence on Wednesday, was home grown, and that must have been a shock to parents, who, in my opinion and experience here, are in delusion as a parent, and their kids seem to be brain dead. I was only in a park yesterday and one of my kids kicked off, and EVERYBODY stared at me instantly as if to say go sort it out. Rushing in the moment one of the kids is frustrated over something is fairly typical of this place. Kids will NEVER learn if all you do is intervene. They'll just grow up to take no personal responsibility, and end up doing something, like uhm, burning cars or looting Sears. It's the same with allergies. It seems that most kids here have a collection of food intolerances. Again this is no doubt to over-bearing, over-protective, holier than thou parents, rushing in to protect little Jay from the slightest impurity in the world, causing their immune system to be ineffective, and demanding that they spend the rest of their life in a protective bubble. I mean almost every kid seems to have some allergy or other, and these are down to parents destroying their immune system through being over-protective. Tantamount to child abuse, some might argue. But those same parents would look down their snout at someone letting their child's immune system develop. All contributes to the "I'm so perfect" syndrome this place is flooded with.

Although I cannot help but to agree with you about East Van. It is the part that the people who I'm referring to (snobs), look down their nose at. My realtor when I moved here, really aggressively encouraged me to not consider looking here. That was bad advice though as it is about the most pleasant, and exciting part of Vancouver, with more genuine, likeable and down to earth people. I think I made more friends since living in East Van, over a few months, than in the 7 years I've been in Vancouver area.

Originally Posted by canadian_critic (Post 9441330)

Although I cannot help but to agree with you about East Van. It is the part that the people who I'm referring to (snobs), look down their nose at. My realtor when I moved here, really aggressively encouraged me to not consider looking here. That was bad advice though as it is about the most pleasant, and exciting part of Vancouver, with more genuine, likeable and down to earth people. I think I made more friends since living in East Van, over a few months, than in the 7 years I've been in Vancouver area.

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 9439020)

If there had been no ice hockey game would there have been a riot? Of course not. It was an ice hockey riot, something traditional for the sport.

Originally Posted by bandrui (Post 9441495)

Not so. These people take advantage of any large gathering like this.

Originally Posted by bandrui (Post 9441495)

These people

Originally Posted by London Mike (Post 9440386)

There are experts in this world who study crowd behaviour who would completely disagree with you. What happened after the game the other night was classic social identitiy theory and therefore certainly contributed to by hockey fans, perhaps even normal peace-loving Vancouverites (yes, even). You won't believe me because you are embarrassed about what happened, and of course because of the stories emerging the following day (post-it notes on cars etc). Trust me, this is not a Vancouver issue. Leaders and instigators are necessary, of course, and yes much of this might well have been pre-meditated but once the blue paper is lit ...

Originally Posted by JonboyE (Post 9441564)

I am not sure why this is so controversial. There is an element here (and not just here) that wants to provoke a riot. It has been going on for years. They tried during the Olympics but the crowd, who were sober and having a good time, told them to **** off. On Wednesday night they found much more receptive accomplices in pissed up hockey fans.

Originally Posted by Alan2005 (Post 9441705)

I don't see why premeditated means that somehow this 'isn't vancouver' or that these people 'aren't hockey fans' None of these things are mutually exclusive. This is what I find irritating about the no "true" hockey fans narrative that you see here and elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Kiwilass (Post 9441709)

I agree, it's freaking irritating.

Originally Posted by bandrui (Post 9441532)

I don't see that anything you have said disagrees with my post. I am ex-psych student and know about mob mentality and there were those who got carried in this but, as you say yourself, it was pre-meditated and planned by a few instigators who had nothing to do with hockey. This is not due to embarrassment on my part but on sheer disgust and by what I know about Vancouver from living there for 20 years.

Originally Posted by London Mike (Post 9441740)

Ok, let's just suppose for a second that 'the few' who created the environment for the disturbance on Weds were not hockey fans (yet, how you can be so sure of this is a mystery - have they been surveyed for sporting opinions?). The majority of the damage and pointless destruction was caused by 'the many' - not just instigators but a wider group of people in the downtown core. These must've been hockey fans, right? Would you agree with me here? I have seen multiple images of people on burning cars wearing the Canucks jersey at least.

The point I was making is that 'the many' lost their sense of who they were 9-5 in the melee of that evening, what values they normally have, whether they believe in that kind of behaviour normally at all. These were quite probably hockey fans and Vancouverites. It's understandable to feel disgusted, but it's not a Vancouver problem at all. With the right conditions it can happen anywhere. There's some excellent stuff published on this phenomenon (not by me, but I've read it).

I'll stop writing now because I'm aware that I'm starting to sound like an arse.

:)

Originally Posted by Alan2005 (Post 9441705)

I don't see why premeditated means that somehow this 'isn't vancouver' or that these people 'aren't hockey fans' None of these things are mutually exclusive. This is what I find irritating about the no "true" hockey fans narrative that you see here and elsewhere.

Originally Posted by el_richo (Post 9441785)

I see the young hockey fan pictured setting the police car alight is the son of a Dr from Maple Ridge.