Hillsborough

Old Sep 12th 2012, 7:09 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: Hillsborough

Originally Posted by JonboyE
Liverpool fans not to blame. Crucial failures in policing led to 96 completely unneccesary deaths. I think we had all realized this.

The confirmation of the level of corruption in the ensuring coverup is truely appalling.
This should not be viewed in isolation, it goes beyond football. I have said elsewhere, that if they more or less got away with this cover up for 23 years, in an incident with so many witnesses and so much attention, think about what happens to ordinary working class families that have no influence. The police used the stereotypes of the working class football fan against them, to shift the emphasis away from the police to the fans. I hate to think what must happen day in day out.
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Old Sep 12th 2012, 7:52 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Hillsborough

Originally Posted by iaink
I hope United can be as classy in a week or so.
The true Utd supporters will be, the knobheads well thats a different matter.
This thread is from one of the Utd forums and might surprise the ABUs that most Utd fans supported the Liverpool fans in seeking the truth.
http://www.redcafe.net/f7/e-petition...-files-337931/
There again were Everton fans classy when they got their JFT 39 banner out?
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Old Sep 12th 2012, 8:13 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: Hillsborough

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian
The true Utd supporters will be, the knobheads well thats a different matter.
This thread is from one of the Utd forums and might surprise the ABUs that most Utd fans supported the Liverpool fans in seeking the truth.
http://www.redcafe.net/f7/e-petition...-files-337931/
There again were Everton fans classy when they got their JFT 39 banner out?
Thanks for the link. I hope the likes of Badunk are the majority. Footy gets so tribal, sometimes it easy to lose sight of the fact that the idiots are a tiny minority.

The pics in the link to the blue moon forum thread near the end brought a tear to my eye. At least some people get it, and try to explain to those that dont.
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Old Sep 12th 2012, 8:19 pm
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Default Re: Hillsborough

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian
The true Utd supporters will be...
And true ice hockey fans don't riot.
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Old Sep 12th 2012, 8:24 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: Hillsborough

I have dealt with my fair share of idiot supporters as a copper. I have seen outright hatred and disgusting behaviour by supporters and also good hearted banter from the majority.
I remember being briefed by a Supt at a pre season friendly at Burnley when they played Liverpool just after the Heysel incident. His words were anybody singing songs about Heysel then nick them. I think 33 were arrested before the message sank in amongst the Burnley fans.
Try explaining the tribal hatred to a Canadian and they just dont get it nor see a reason for it.
I just hope the Evra/Suarez incident doesnt kick off again as both sets of fans can be volatile given their history.
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Old Sep 12th 2012, 8:52 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: Hillsborough

Originally Posted by iaink
Thanks for the link. I hope the likes of Badunk are the majority. Footy gets so tribal, sometimes it easy to lose sight of the fact that the idiots are a tiny minority.

The pics in the link to the blue moon forum thread near the end brought a tear to my eye. At least some people get it, and try to explain to those that dont.
+1
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Old Sep 15th 2012, 1:14 pm
  #37  
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Default Re: Hillsborough

I know most loyal Liverpool supporters dont read the Sun but I found this article to be interesting.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...t-justice.html

I know some may think I am trying to defend the Police but after reading this article this is why my comments seem to be in support of them.
The ordinary copper doing his job. He only found out 23 years later that his notes were changed as did others. If they were telling the truth then why were their notes changed and who changed them because he claims he didnt. Im sure there was a series of meetings between the Police hierarchy and a decision was made to change the notes. That is what I find reprehensible and they should face any sanctions.
The ordinary copper should not be faulted for something they had no control of as appears in this case. Ive met many a decent ordinary copper left hung out to dry by the hierarchy as we all know shit flows downhill.
I hope this clears up my points.
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Old Sep 15th 2012, 1:32 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: Hillsborough

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian
I know most loyal Liverpool supporters dont read the Sun but I found this article to be interesting.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...t-justice.html

I know some may think I am trying to defend the Police but after reading this article this is why my comments seem to be in support of them.
The ordinary copper doing his job. He only found out 23 years later that his notes were changed as did others. If they were telling the truth then why were their notes changed and who changed them because he claims he didnt. Im sure there was a series of meetings between the Police hierarchy and a decision was made to change the notes. That is what I find reprehensible and they should face any sanctions.
The ordinary copper should not be faulted for something they had no control of as appears in this case. Ive met many a decent ordinary copper left hung out to dry by the hierarchy as we all know shit flows downhill.
I hope this clears up my points.
Unfortunately I think your comments do the eaxct opposite of what you intended - rather than elicit some sort of sympathy or understanding for the police it does the opposite.

Every single one of the "police heirarchy" started out as "an ordinary copper." Everything they learned about how to behave as a policeman, they learned from within the closed-shop ranks of people who had started out as "ordinary coppers". This cannot be dismissed as the behaviour of faceless managers - every one of those senior officers who changed statements and sanctioned the campaign to deflect blame would have described themselves as "a good copper".

The problem isn't with the people - it's with the institution. The police force makes good people do bad things. It's not a new or unusual phenomonen... it happens all the time in groups like the military when a "group mindset" takes over and people allow their own morals to be subjugated by those of "the unit" or "the force".

It's human nature. Entirely understandable. But it's also why the police should be subject to public scrutiny and challenge - for their own good.

Cover-ups don't just get rid of the problem at hand... they make the next one almost inevitable. If there is any evidence of a coverup, there should be wholesale punishment across the ranks - not excuses, obfuscation and early retirement on full pensions.
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