Hillsborough

Old Sep 12th 2012, 1:02 pm
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Default Hillsborough

Report to be issued imminently, and in the House, Call Me Dave is calling the contents "distressing", and suggested that "what happened since the event was wrong".

Do you think the report will confirm collusion between the South Yorkshire police, the Home Secretary, the Cabinet and the media to put the blame onto "drunken Liverpool fans"?
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Old Sep 12th 2012, 1:03 pm
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Default Re: Hillsborough

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty View Post
Report to be issued imminently, and in the House, Call Me Dave is calling the contents "distressing", and suggested that "what happened since the event was wrong".

Do you think the report will confirm collusion between the South Yorkshire police, the Home Secretary, the Cabinet and the media to put the blame onto "drunken Liverpool fans"?
No is my guess but Im waiting for the report before I comment any further.
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Old Sep 12th 2012, 1:06 pm
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Default Re: Hillsborough

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty View Post
Report to be issued imminently, and in the House, Call Me Dave is calling the contents "distressing", and suggested that "what happened since the event was wrong".

Do you think the report will confirm collusion between the South Yorkshire police, the Home Secretary, the Cabinet and the media to put the blame onto "drunken Liverpool fans"?
It looks like a few myths are going to be shown for the lies that they are with regards to events that day. That said, I hope it doesn't go to the other extreme and totally exonerate the Liverpool fans of any blame for what happened that day.
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Old Sep 12th 2012, 1:23 pm
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Default Re: Hillsborough

From the BBC...

David Cameron said details of the report were "deeply distressing".

He added that the report showed the Liverpool fans "were not the cause of the disaster".

The report, by the Hillsborough Independent Panel, showed police and emergency services made "strenuous attempts" to deflect the blame for the disaster on to innocent fans.
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Old Sep 12th 2012, 1:56 pm
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Default Re: Hillsborough

The civil cases that resulted from this put the blame at the feet of the "emergency services". In light of the fact that those cases looked at evidence obtained shortly after the event, I fail to see how a report prepared this length of time afterwards will conclude otherwise.

Who knows what will be uncovered in relation to the coverups alleged.
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Old Sep 12th 2012, 1:59 pm
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Default Re: Hillsborough

I was on that same ground in 1976 for the Man Utd v Derby FA Cup semi final. The Utd fans were allocated the Leppings Lane end however due to their away support at the time there were hundreds who had bought tickets from scalpers and ended up on the Kop end with all the Derby fans. There was also a small section of that Kop end allocated to the Utd fans as can be seen in this video clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImLywgV0gao
I was 16 at the time and I ended up buying a ticket of a scalper.
It was the norm in those days for the singing supporters to congergate behind the goal especially in the middle area. It was also the norm for thousands of fans to travel without tickets hoping to either buy one or somehow get in without a ticket. It was also the norm for a portion of fans to get drunk and turn up late.
This happened at this semi final as well but without the tragic events of Hillsborough.
None of the 96 deserved to die however events such as this we tend to want to blame someone because how could something like this happen.
Did we look for blame in the Ibrox disaster in 1971, The Bradford Fire in 1985. Yes there was blame laid in all these events but a series of events led up to those disasters as well.
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Old Sep 12th 2012, 2:09 pm
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Default Re: Hillsborough

I don't think anyone is claiming that Liverpool fans were saints - there was certainly drunken pushing. But it is the job of the police to protect public safety - after all, that's why they insist on being paid by football clubs to police football matches.

None of this is at issue - what will likely come out today is confirmation of the systematic and deliberate attempts by the police, the Home Secretary, the Cabinet and elements of the media to present the police as blameless.

Not that anything will change, of course, the police still cover up poor behaviour.
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Old Sep 12th 2012, 2:18 pm
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Default Re: Hillsborough

I just hope it finally gives the relatives a chance to move on. Bad things happened, on both sides, but it was well over 20 years ago and many things have changed since then.

Im a Liverpool fan, You cant ever forget something like that, but its time to move on. The pity party that its become is really a bit sad.
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Old Sep 12th 2012, 2:20 pm
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Default Re: Hillsborough

Originally Posted by iaink View Post
I just hope it finally gives the relatives a chance to move on. Bad things happened, on both sides, but it was well over 20 years ago and many things have changed since then.

Im a Liverpool fan, You cant ever forget something like that, but its time to move on. The pity party that its become is really a bit sad.
Liverpudlians - self-pity? Never!
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Old Sep 12th 2012, 2:22 pm
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Default Re: Hillsborough

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty View Post
Liverpudlians - self-pity? Never!
To be fair they have much to be rightly aggrieved about but when I lived thereabouts I never saw that much of that pity thing going on, just the sense of humour. Oh well...
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Old Sep 12th 2012, 2:30 pm
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Default Re: Hillsborough

If there was a cover up then those involved need to be held accountable.
Hillsborough had held many semi finals at that ground and all passed without the tragic results of that day so its not like the South Yorkshire Police had not experienced this type of event before.
In that era 3 x previous semi finals were held at that ground.
Unfortunately we can all sit back and analyze this to death.
Did thousands of Liverpool fans travel to that game without tickets?
Did some get drunk?
Did some arrive late?
Was there pushing to get into the ground by those with or without tickets?
Should all gates have been opened earlier bearing in mind that thousands without tickets would have got in.
Was the Police Commander experienced with this type of situation?
Was he being a jobsworth by not opening the gates earlier knowing many had not got tickets and therefore knowing there would be over capacity in that end of the ground which could cause a danger.
Can we determine that the above factors were a contributing factor or dismiss them as not being relevant?
This tragedy should never have happened but it did and hopefully another like this will never happen.
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Old Sep 12th 2012, 2:37 pm
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Default Re: Hillsborough

Originally Posted by iaink View Post
To be fair they have much to be rightly aggrieved about but when I lived thereabouts I never saw that much of that pity thing going on, just the sense of humour. Oh well...
Reminds me of my favourite Scouser joke:

What's the difference between a bull and a tragedy?

Even a Scouser can't milk a bull.
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Old Sep 12th 2012, 2:38 pm
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Default Re: Hillsborough

Many of your points just are just not relevant to apportioning the blame, anyone preparing a plan for this event should not have been caught off guard by the presence of late and drunken fans, or fans without tickets, it was part and parcel of a normal semifinal. Under the circumstances it was a tragedy waiting to happen. Why an inexperience officer like Duckenfield was in charge is a mystery to me.

What is inexcusable is the way that those responsible deflected the blame rather than manning up and taking collective responsibility. Most of those at the top responsible for that are long since dead now anyway (Peter Wright, the cheif constable at the time, died last year), and the lessons have been learned long ago, so really, gratifying as the report is, its time to put this to bed now.

Last edited by iaink; Sep 12th 2012 at 2:51 pm.
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Old Sep 12th 2012, 2:45 pm
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Default Re: Hillsborough

Link to an article in The Mirror

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footba...-reade-1318730
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Old Sep 12th 2012, 2:52 pm
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Default Re: Hillsborough

Originally Posted by Tangram View Post
Thats pretty good
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