Guns
 

John Oliver said today:
'One failed attempt at a shoe-bomb and we all take off our shoes at the airport. 31 school shootings since Columbine and no change in the regulation of guns.'
Wise words.
IMO, if you own a gun at all ask yourself why. I talked with my neighbour the other day after a deer ran on the QEW and he said "see, that's why we need hunting.' He's a twat, and everyone who thinks that way is also a twat.
Or are they ... (pathetic, leading attempt at playing devil's advocate)?

Re: Guns
 

I personally see no need for guns, and would never own one, and don't see what people see in the things. But that is just me.

I can see why some may need one for food, such as those in the far north where food has to be hunted in order to survive, but in an urban environment, I really don't see why they need to be around.

I'll tell you one thing, one of the scariest things ever is being woken up by gun shots and bullets coming through your bedroom wall, happened to me when I was a teenager in California, the drunk next door decided to start shooting up the neighborhood, luckily nobody was hit, but several houses and cars sustained damage. The cops took the guy away and he never returned home, got a rather long prison sentence for his idiocy.

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I enjoy shooting, but i've only ever done it at a gun range, i don't think i could hunt an animal

if i was more into the outdoors lifestyle i'd probably take a gun incase of animal attacks, but otherwise i doubt i'd own one.

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I was pleased to hear Hilary Clinton comment recently that America needs to get away from the notion that any one who wants a gun can have one. It was subtle remark, but a clear statement of opinion. Hopefully she will run for president and if elected start to bring some sense to the American gun problem.

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I think we need to distinguish the 2 x separate types of guns.

In Canada IMHO there is no reason for anyone to have a handgun or pistol if you like as you don't hunt with them. Now saying that there will be the person who competitively shoots a handgun which Im ok with.

The problem area is long guns/rifles be they single shot, semi automatic or full automatic.
A traditional hunter has no need for an AK47 or M16 or a semi automatic.
Sure pop a deer with a 30.06 or 7mm Magnum but single shot only please.

Semi and full auto should be left for law enforcement and the military.

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Oh dear more ******* anti's,you lot are everywhere these days.
Have any of you got a PAL?
DO any of you know the process of applying for a firearms license at all?

I own 13 rifles and a shotgun now,5 of those rifles being semi-automatics.
I enjoy target shooting,my kids love target shooting,even the missus enjoys plinking away at targets.
We do NO one any harm,never have a notion to go out and shoot anyone,and when I come home from work my rifles are all still standing in their cabinets without running out shooting at people,imagine that!
Maybe my rifles are just lazy?
Or maybe it's not friggin firearms that kill people,its idiots,criminals that kill people,and if those people are going to kill people they will do it with bombs,knives,cars,bats,whatever.
When I lived in Scotland there were 3 family men beaten to death by teenage gangs after telling the teens to stop kicking car mirrors,no firearms involved at all!

I will be going hunting this year,to fill my freezer with fresh venison,and will use the hides from the deer for rugs.
I don't believe in wasting anything,even the dog will get a few bones from it.
Again what harm are people like me doing to you?
Criminals don't abide by the law,the firearms that they use are usually prohibited,or are handguns.

Maybe we should ban cars as so many people have been knocked down,maybe ban smoking,paints,plastics,and fossil fuels as people die of cancer?
Lets ban sugars,and fats as they make people fat!
Look at Chicago,it has the toughest firearms laws in America yet has the highest gun crimes!
Criminals themselves admit that if they know an area has firearms owners they are less likely to commit crimes there!

As for handguns,I don't own any,but I don't see the problem in trappers or hunters being allowed to carry a handgun in the wilderness for protection,even oil workers etc.. in remote locations.
As for not using a semi auto for hunting,why not?
If you have ever seen a Moose get shot you will know that they don't always drop first shot even with a .303,or 7.62x54r,having a semi-auto lets you dispatch it faster so its not in pain,try reload with a bolt action while it runs off in agony!

Re: Guns
 

Was going to start a similar thread due to recent events. I hate guns, I don't see why people want them but clearly in some countries people feel it's part of their culture. I think these countries should bring in tightly controlled gun licences, & people should be psychologically evaluated & have no criminal record in order to obtain one.

The Americans make me laugh when they say it's their constitutional rights to bear arms, that thing was written hundreds of years ago times have changed, people have evolved (well some) it should no longer apply. There's an amusing episode of family guy where the founding fathers are gathered drawing up the bill & one asks if people will misinterpret it wrong, another looks up at a pair of bear arms mounted on the wall & says how can anyone misinterpret it. :lol:

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If you don't like it,it's simple to leave!
What gives anyone the right to enter another country and demand that they change their laws because you don't like something?
Typical Brits!
If you are going to live in another country,embrace that culture,and it's laws,if not then you are clearly in the wrong country!

Confused UK you clearly are confused as you would be denied a PAL if you have a criminal record,your partner or even ex partner must sign your application and you must provide references and a letter or report from the police.
AK47's and M16's are fully automatic rifles which are prohibited in Canada,clearly another case of people talking about things that they have no idea about!

Do any of you know any farmers?
I do and their lands and livestock are damaged by coyotes,wolves,cougar,bear,and wild boar,some of these are pack animals,again you would rather have a semi automatic than a bolt or lever action rifle!
Did you also know that semi auto rifles have magazine restrictions in Canada limiting them to 5 rounds?
Again I didn't think any of you did.
So many people are so fast to chirp in their uneducated opinions,it's laughable.

Please if you are going to post about something then at least educate yourselves on it first,is that too much to ask?

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Yes, I have a PAL. Yes, I know a farmer.

Nonetheless, I think your opinions are those of an overexcited boy enthusing over noisy toys. A semi-automatic is like a pick-up truck, a Chelsea tractor, or a pink mohican haircut, it's not useful but is nice to have if you want to project a certain image. The haircut is more defensible because it doesn't kill anything.

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Lol,I am merely defending myself and my rights,as a 40 year old I am hardly an excited child,yes I do own a truck,but no Mohawk.
The truck is useful for example I just helped a friend move house at the weekend,I use it to reach places that I could not reach with a car,I can load deer into the truck,hard to shove a deer into the boot of a car,easier to tow a neighbours car that's stuck in ice or snow with a truck than a car too!

It has nothing to do with looks at all,and comparing a semi auto to a punk Mohawk just displays your utter lack of mentality,I mean seriously if you feel that way why not just go back to Britain?
Is it easier to whine and cry about it on an ex pats forum,or is because you think that everything should change to suit you?

I have made some amazing friends through my shooting hobby from an Ex Londoner who moved here in the early 80's to French Quebec guys,and obviously Canadians,not one of them has that Brit 'snobbery' attitude that you display dbd33.

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Canada has a gun problem in that it has a porous border with the country having a huge population and the second highest rate of gun ownership in the world (I believe that's correct, the US is second, Canada first, but cba looking it up again). People will always be able to bring weapons across the border if they so choose and few of the people who so choose will want the gun for target shooting.

That said, Canada has a scary gun culture of its own. What legitimate reason can someone have for keeping 14 guns at home?

It's not for blasting bambi, any gun can damage a deer (and I call bullshit on the idea that people derive any significant meat or pelts from hunting, it's primarily about the thrill of the kill or, as I see it, the joy of maiming something because, with a gun in his hand, the shooter is bigger and stronger. Than the deer.) It's not for pest control, when that fox is prowling round the coop, you don't have time to rouse 13 friends to join you in blasting it. It might be a desire to collect objects, in which case a switch to Royal Doulton figurines would meet the need and be safer.

I think gun collection is more of a fetish, hand guns are better because you can caress one and have your other hand free.

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I was being kind, an earlier thought was to say that a semi-automatic is like a Harley-Davidson but men don't look such prats with pink hair as they do polishing a two wheeled tractor.

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Obviously you have a single track mind like blinkers on a horse.
I have a collection of rifles because I collect certain rifles,hunting is not just about the kill,its not about being 'bigger or tougher' than an animal just because you have a firearm,its not about a fetish either,maybe for you it is as you seem to have some seriously disturbed thoughts!

For me hunting is being with friends,enjoying nature,learning from experienced hunters that track animals,not the guys that go out on quads until they come across something.

Again dbd33 you clearly show your mentality,or lack off should I say?
What could I expect from someone living in liberal Ontario?
I will let you get back to your spare hand,and your fetishes!

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Scootb, may I introduce you to our good BE friend(s) in the Interior (BC) known as jossie! :D:rofl::D

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scootb

I was referring to American laws not Canadian, also I have no intention of moving somewhere then making them change their laws.

I hate guns, that's my opinion & I'm entitled to it, though I understand your point of farmers needing them & have no issue with that. I also hate hunting, I think it's cruel (unless you're a live off the land type of person), you want to go out in the woods & have a little bonding time your buddies, fine, why must you kill something to do that, especially when you have no intention of eating your kill, it's a waste of a life. Makes me sick when I see people posing next to dead animals. Not deliberately trying to ruffle your feathers on the subject it's just my opinion.

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Perhaps scootb and the jossies could hunt each other, winner to be pictured here waving the carcass of the loser.

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You should be aware that the long gun laws in Canada are, in short, "if you want one, you can have one". Grandfathering means that some types of firearms that have been banned in the US can be legally owned in Canada.
It's even legal for me to drive around in my open convertible car with a car on the back seat and to leave the car parked with just a blanket over the gun. And it's not just the drivers of pastel Beetles who are allowed to do this!

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My husband has a PAL and we have 3 rifles locked away. My husband loves hunting(he only shoots to eat) and loves target shooting. My boys like target shooting. I love target shooting with a hand gun, but that's a different licence aspect and I do not feel it necessary to bother.

I see no need for anything other than single shot types, end of. I see no need for hand guns either. It would be easy to say that licences make it difficult, but that would be deluded as there are shootings with unlicensed weapons going on all over the place. I was rather startled at a buy and sell ad on FB recently for someone wanting to buy weapons and rounds to prepare for a 'zombie apocalypse' :blink: No mention of their PAL and no doubt they got replies!

I have to say that I feel uneasy with weapons in the house, even though they are locked away correctly and the rounds are locked away correctly separately. I worry whenever my husband goes out shooting, even if responsible and wearing the correct clothing etc. Rifles shoot a long way and their are plenty of bad-shot muppets out there.

As FL says, hand guns at a range. If they had good licenced ranges which people could join and use, but not own. I think PAL licensing should be tighter than it is and involve regular checks and maybe home visits to inspect storage of them. Some people who have licenses, well, it scares me.

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That's the rub isn't it: keeping guns out of the hands of the deranged, criminal and over-passionate. It could be done with much tighter regulation. That seems to be the right compromise between those who want to enjoy guns and those who prefer the protection low ownership affords.

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Only if you can sell the idea in Washington then have some sort of widespread firearm reclaimation program. That's not going to happen in my lifetime.

That or perhaps a huge shift in social attitudes. That's possible in a shorter timeframe, for example, people used to wear scent in workplaces without thought, the shift to smelling bad has been brought about by peer pressure, not legislation. Something similar has happened with peanuts.

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Leave it to Hilary, she will sort it out!

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Hmm. She does have prior with things priapic...

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:goodpost:

I agree that people that really want a gun will find a way but a license could've stopped the guy last week from being able to walk into a shop & buy them as he wasn't exactly a social butterfly I think he would've found it hard to network the black market for one. Yes I know he stabbed & run over people also but guns are easier to do a lot more damage with & if he hadn't been stopped relatively quickly he had the means there for far worse.

You sound like a very responsible person & so does scootb but unfortunately not everyone with a gun is & that's where the problem lies. A lot of these school shootings have been carried out by kids (most of which come from irresponsible families) who have grown up around guns & had easy access to them. Although this seems to be more an American problem than Canadian, has there even been something similar in Canada (apart from the recent Toronto one)?

I just think at the end of the day having tougher gun licenses in America can only be a good thing.

Re: Guns
 

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Fortunately Alan2005 is not here to shoot me down, but I believe these massacres are at least partially attributable to Hollywood and video games which glorify mass violence. Societal change could start there.

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I think the problem is a society in which, when these things happen, immediately goes on the aggressive-defensive re: gun control laws.

The NRA and their supporters are masters at lobbying and media manipulation, and they have the stamina and the wallet to play the long game. Grief and anger don't last as long, as victims' families just try to move on.

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I don't think this is a licensing issue. A mad gunman here could apply for a PAL and then buy firearms legitimately. He likely wouldn't be granted a second PAL after a shooting spree but that's a bit stable door. It seems to me that the only way to reduce the number of shooting victims is to reduce the firepower of available weapons and, beyond that, to take the weapons away completely. Even if scootb is responsible, and having a license says nothing about that, there's no way of knowing if other members of his household are responsible, still less his burglars.

This is, as noted above, really a matter for the Canadians, rather than the immigrants. They're comfortable with a reasonable level of random death as part of the price of freedom to keep arms. We only need to be aware of that before moving here.

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Not really a good start.

Regarding guns...I generally don't have a problem with people having them provided it's all licensed properly.

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After 33 years, does that not make one "Canadian" - at very least relative to newer immigrants? Particularly as it is a country of immigrants. FN excepted.

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Is the suggestion, less knee-jerk reaction to atrocities, more long term / sustained pressure to control guns?

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Not really sure about that. I've played video games since I was a kid. I play them to this day. Some of them are "violent" or are shooters. There were two pistols in the home when I was growing up (parents allowed/required to carry them). My parents showed me them but obviously I was not allowed to use them and I never had any desire to use them. To this day I've never fired anything more dangerous than a pellet gun and I don't feel a bubbling desire inside me to go Elliott Rodger mode and blow people away.

Massacres occur from time to time in the first world because of deranged individuals. Even with tight controls you can't stop everything. In lesser developed nations like the USA the massacres happen more regularly because the society as a whole is generally more violent and prone to idiocy. It's not because they have "more guns". There are plenty of guns floating around in Canada, Switzerland, Finland and basically every other country. It's probably because they're just more aggressive and have a misplaced superiority complex and it leeches into everything.

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I certain hope not. You wouldn't say that Napoleon was an Elban.

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By what standard is the USA "lesser developed"? It is, for all practical purposes, just like Canada.

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As a society? It's laughably backward.

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In what way is the US laughably backward compared with Canada?

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Guns have two purposes. To kill things and to practice killing things. The problem arises when people fetishize about the former purpose and the power that comes from this fantasy. The issue with these mass killings is that they take on a sort of ecstatic form of violence, they become the spectacle. While they seem sensless to the public, the media and the State actually gain power and derive purpose from these acts. You only have to watch the television after an act to see the States’ actors all lined up with their best uniforms almost gleaming with renewed sense of purpose and power, or the TV pundits analyzing every bit of information with their ad hoc psychology and general bollocks.

I have some guns locked away, but I see them like old toothbrushes, I’m not sure why I still keep them, but they’ve had and probably still have a purpose but I don’t romanticize them.

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The student who shot up Isla Vista last weekend had 3 legally-owned handguns.

I think that was a BIG part of the problem.

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It's a big place. I don't think you can say that. Pockets of backwardness at most.

On the video games / movies thing, it's the 1 out of 10,000 that are affected that I am concerned about. Like you, I'm one of the 9999 that are not. Nevertheless, the whole genre seems wrong footed to me. I appreciate that people get a thrill out of it, but that have been conditioned to do so. Maybe in the same way that we all used to laugh at bear baiting or even public executions. I think the future will see violent entertainment as somewhat barbaric.

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I seem to recall on the last guns thread that you were singing the virtues of guns as objects, their workmanship, etc..

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You do realize there's a difference? ;)