If you believe in nonsense that's your issue just don't annoy me with your nonsense and also keep away from children.

Exactly, you have a screwed up view of religion.

None of the church goers I know believe anything like that. What you are talking about is a very extremist view, and we all know extremists of all sorts, religous, political, or whatever, are nutters.

Having faith in something larger than you doenst in itself make you a nutter, any more than believing in life elsewhere in the Universe, UFOs or that Spurs will one day win the premiership.

Its also rather blind to the potential positive aspects of faith.

Now, before you get all holier than thou, Im not a religous person, although I guess I share some common values. Im not a church goer, but I know many, and resent this ignorant view of them that gets spouted out here (and elsewhere) by people whose own views dont happen to coincide with theirs. I see a lot of comfort, stability and good that comes from their faith.

So why are so many of these supposedly decent Christians upset because somebody wants to build a mosque in NYC?

Hypocrites, the lot of them.

Damned good question. Perhaps they are mouth breathing republicans, rather than Christians. Its certainly not a forgiving "christain" attitude that I would expect from a "Christian". It all seems a bit more old testiment than that.

Thats the conundrum of US politics, the "Christian Right" is at times anything but Christian. They should stop and ask themselves that tired old cliche "What would Jesus do" more often, only they wouldnt like the answer!

They are trying to work out if they should go for the "love thy neighbour" approach, or the "an eye for an eye" approach.

Saudi Arabia is about as intolerant of other religions as one can get although there are others. Try spending time in such a country, particularly Saudi Arabia, for those that are not convinced with respect to how repressive such places are for non muslims.

That being said, Qatar has allowed a Christian (RC) church to be built, a significant though perhaps token event but in Saudi Arabia...not in a million years.

I hope those opposing construction uncover the source of the mosque funding; it will be interesting to see how things unfold when they do.

I think it is all about provocation....Nuff said.

The Saudi argument cuts both ways though. How are we supposed to convince the Saudis to be more open and receptive by making our society more oppressive and closed?


Personally I think the right wing have blown this out of proportion, two blocks is quite a ways from ground zero, and I find this idea that all muslims are associated with terrorists totally offensive.

On the other hand if it is being funded and built for political rather that faith based reasons then there are a while lot of other considerations to take on board.

As with most things in life, we're only likely to hear half-truth's form both sides of the issue, from politicians, the media and anyone else with an agenda. The truth lays somewhere in the middle.

Right, this is what I have trouble accepting. Who are we to tell the Saudis, or anyone else for that matter, how they should be? Surely it is none of our business. Why is there this urge to push Western "values" onto other cultures?

Perhaps if the likes of the UK and the US kept their noses out of other countries business then there would not be the mess that we have now. There seems to be lots of preaching about freedom of expression and tolerance, which I find hypocritical to say the least.

The problem in the past has been the man turning us against one another. We have been unable to see the truth, because we have fighting for ten square feet of ground, our turf, our little piece of turf.

Ive no desire to convert Saudi Arabia to a western culture. But some basic human rights there wouldn't go amiss. Likewise for Israel. And a long list of other countries too.

At last, someone who uses the power of lounge music to decipher life's more obscure truths..

The simplest course of action would be to build a Christian Church, a Synagogue, a Hindu Temple, a Buddhist Temple, a Humanist centre.. etc etc..

At least this way, by the time all of the religions were recognised, each building would be so small there wouldn't be any room to worship inside & the congregations would all have to mingle in the middle during the relevant meetings & prayers..

How is it a provocation? It's just a Mosque. Get over it already.

I completely agree. However, often, the way in which the population treats each other is a reflection of their culture. The fact that I think that people are treated crappily in Saudi is really of no relevance. Who am I to tell other people what is or is not acceptable? I think that the way women are treated is beyond appalling, repellant.

The definition of human rights in places like the UK and Canada differs wildly from that in places such as Saudi or Isreal. This is why it bugs me to see people, most recently Mr Obama, bleating on about religious freedom of expression and tolerance. It seems that this tolerance is only extended to those who you agree with, those who have similar values.

Well, I think Obamas point was that religious tolerance applies as much to Muslims as Christians wasnt it? Squarely aimed at the domestic market, even if its not likely to win him any new admirers (or voters) on the right.

As the west is finding out again in Afghanistan, you cant quickly change hundreds of years of cultural baggage. But just because Saudi Arabia has a long history of (what to me appears to be) appalling behaviour to women (and other non male /heterosexual/ arab groups), doesnt mean we shouldnt endeavour to try and change things, directly or indirectly for the better. But thats really material for politics and diplomacy, rather than the fox news call in.

Ultimately people believe in "stuff". If enough of them believe in the same stuff then the temptation is there to try and encourage other people to believe in it too.

Sometimes the stuff in question is Christian faith, sometimes its Islam, sometimes its non secular beliefs like womens rights or freedom of religion for all. If you believe in it, then you have to keep trying I guess, win, loose or draw.