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British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   The Maple Leaf (https://britishexpats.com/forum/maple-leaf-98/)
-   -   Go for it Harry marry Meghan. (https://britishexpats.com/forum/maple-leaf-98/go-harry-marry-meghan-887683/)

Oink Nov 28th 2017 9:48 pm
Re: Go for it Harry marry Meghan.
 
Originally Posted by Jingsamichty (Post 12390903)
A

I'm not a monarchist but I'm not strongly in favour of abolition or republicanism. I do think the monarchy should be severely trimmed down and made less ostentatious.
Why not? Seems a somewhat contradictory position?

Jingsamichty Nov 28th 2017 10:01 pm
Re: Go for it Harry marry Meghan.
 
Originally Posted by Oink (Post 12390915)
Why not? Seems a somewhat contradictory position?
I'm not a monarchist in the sense that I don't believe a monarchy is the best option - to have an hereditary ruler (even a symbolic one) seems archaic. However, I'm not a rabid republican - I don't strongly feel that we would be better as a country just by being a republic. What would change? Not much.

Likewise, I'm not a rabid abolitionist. I also accept that some odd people really quite like waving flags and curtseying and tugging their forelocks at their betters. I could quite comfortably live with knowing that the monarchy is there as long as someone has taken a very sharp red pen to both the numbers of "royals" and their privileges.

Shard Nov 28th 2017 10:12 pm
Re: Go for it Harry marry Meghan.
 
I think the red pen thing will happen post Elizabeth II. Particularly by the time we get to William. The mystique with current system goes back to the 50s and all that, but in due course even the monarchists will see public funding of a particular aristocracy as a bit bizarre, and we'll end up with a Continental style monarchy.

Paul_Shepherd Nov 29th 2017 2:33 am
Re: Go for it Harry marry Meghan.
 
Originally Posted by christmasoompa (Post 12390886)
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. The Queen may be a heck of a lot richer than I, have no money worries and have several homes to choose from.

But she's also still working in her 90's, has her every move scrutinised, can't ever be free to do what she actually want to do ('I think I'd like to be a teacher/hairdresser/road sweeper'.....oh, but I get no choice in my life), has to be 'public' all the time, has to spend hours making small talk with pointless people (over 16,000 public engagements in her lifetime :eek:), etc. Even last year she had 332 royal engagements, so a grand total of 33 days off in a year at 90 years old? No thanks.

I guess it depends on whether you value financial security or happiness more, and I know which I'd choose. As I said above, I wouldn't swap places with them for anything. I'll take my life with my pathetic one house and money worries, but the freedom to do what I want thanks. :lol:

Very well put.

The Queen has devoted her entire life to fulfilling a strong sense of duty to the UK and the commonwealth, and hasn't put a foot wrong, some may say with the exception of how she dealt with Diana's death, however she was only following protocol, and addressed this a few days later......protocol cannot be relied on as much nowadays as it was, as the world is a constantly changing place, but she has evolved with it. I don't know many 91 year old women still working as she does.

On another note, mentioned by other posters, I believe only the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh receive money from the government via the tax payer. Prince Harry receives money from the Duchy of Cornwall along with Prince Charles and William which is basically income from land/property and other financial investments.

BristolUK Nov 29th 2017 2:42 am
Re: Go for it Harry marry Meghan.
 
Originally Posted by christmasoompa (Post 12390886)
...The Queen...has to be 'public' all the time, has to spend hours making small talk with pointless people (over 16,000 public engagements in her lifetime :eek:), etc. Even last year she had 332 royal engagements...
And when you're one of 180 at one of these engagements, she sounds genuinely attentive and interested in your response to "what do you do?":nod:

Jingsamichty Nov 29th 2017 2:48 am
Re: Go for it Harry marry Meghan.
 
Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd (Post 12391103)

On another note, mentioned by other posters, I believe only the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh receive money from the government via the tax payer. Prince Harry receives money from the Duchy of Cornwall along with Prince Charles and William which is basically income from land/property and other financial investments.
The Duchy of Cornwall is a Crown possession, i.e. it belongs to the nation. So the income from the Duchy is a national asset, which is given to the Prince of Wales in lieu of a direct handout. It's still "our money".

Shard Nov 29th 2017 2:59 am
Re: Go for it Harry marry Meghan.
 
Originally Posted by Jingsamichty (Post 12391112)
The Duchy of Cornwall is a Crown possession, i.e. it belongs to the nation. So the income from the Duchy is a national asset, which is given to the Prince of Wales in lieu of a direct handout. It's still "our money".
Didn't it belong to one of the families originally (admittedly granted by some royal whim in the mists of time) and therefore private?

BristolUK Nov 29th 2017 3:02 am
Re: Go for it Harry marry Meghan.
 
Originally Posted by Oink (Post 12390775)
I find all private charity and philanthropy to be problematic. It perversely concentrates power and it lets society/government off the for hook for caring, supporting and investing in other humans.
Welcome to the light side ;)

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty (Post 12390903)
...we've been paying for her son for 70 years to be understudy, paying for HIS son for 30-odd years, and now paying for HIS son... how many other jobs do you hire the person doing the job and the next 4 people who will do it?...
It does sound daft when you put it that way, especially when not all the next four will do it anyway.

Perhaps if there were to be a few poisonings or something to cull the numbers like in I CLAVDIVS or that other one whose name escapes me :rofl:

Paul_Shepherd Nov 29th 2017 3:05 am
Re: Go for it Harry marry Meghan.
 
Originally Posted by Jingsamichty (Post 12391112)
The Duchy of Cornwall is a Crown possession, i.e. it belongs to the nation. So the income from the Duchy is a national asset, which is given to the Prince of Wales in lieu of a direct handout. It's still "our money".
Well yes its crown property, which has been owned by the crown/royalty for centuries.

So do you think this land should be taken from royal possession and divided out amongst all UK citizens?

Jingsamichty Nov 29th 2017 3:06 am
Re: Go for it Harry marry Meghan.
 
Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12391118)
Didn't it belong to one of the families originally (admittedly granted by some royal whim in the mists of time) and therefore private?
Despite describing itself as a private estate, it pays no Corporation Tax as the governments considers it a crown asset. No matter how you spin it, the UK mug taxpayer funds the Windsor family one way or another.

Paul_Shepherd Nov 29th 2017 3:09 am
Re: Go for it Harry marry Meghan.
 
Originally Posted by Jingsamichty (Post 12391125)
Despite describing itself as a private estate, it pays no Corporation Tax as the governments considers it a crown asset. No matter how you spin it, the UK mug taxpayer funds the Windsor family one way or another.
Like the Queen, the Duchy of Cornwall is not obligated to pay tax but does so voluntarily.

Jingsamichty Nov 29th 2017 3:10 am
Re: Go for it Harry marry Meghan.
 
Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd (Post 12391123)
Well yes its crown property, which has been owned by the crown/royalty for centuries.

So do you think this land should be taken from royal possession and divided out amongst all UK citizens?
No, I just want you to acknowledge that Charles and his family benefit from untaxed income from land that belongs to the nation. Hardly makes them independent of the taxpayer.

Oakvillian Nov 29th 2017 3:17 am
Re: Go for it Harry marry Meghan.
 
Originally Posted by Jingsamichty (Post 12391112)
The Duchy of Cornwall is a Crown possession, i.e. it belongs to the nation. So the income from the Duchy is a national asset, which is given to the Prince of Wales in lieu of a direct handout. It's still "our money".
That's not quite true. The Duchy is a crown possession if, and only if, the reigning monarch has no male heir apparent. In which case, as currently, the Duchy of Cornwall belongs to the Duke in trust (quite a restrictive trust, actually - he is not allowed to sell any capital assets of the Duchy for personal gain, for example). The current Duke pays income tax on income from the Duchy, in much the same way as any other landowner would pay tax on income generated from the land (leases and rentals from tenants, income from events held on the property, etc etc).

I don't see how it's "our money" just because the landowner happens to be a Royal, instead of some other wealthy individual - unless you also begrudge the income various rock stars get from the tenant farmers on the country estates they bought from impoverished aristocrats...

christmasoompa Nov 29th 2017 3:17 am
Re: Go for it Harry marry Meghan.
 
Originally Posted by Jingsamichty (Post 12391125)
Despite describing itself as a private estate, it pays no Corporation Tax as the governments considers it a crown asset. No matter how you spin it, the UK mug taxpayer funds the Windsor family one way or another.
So you're spinning it that he pays no tax on it despite paying 45% on the profits rather than the 20% Corp Tax would take? That's quite the spin. :lol:

Jingsamichty Nov 29th 2017 3:21 am
Re: Go for it Harry marry Meghan.
 
But Prince Charles didn't buy it.


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