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Old Apr 5th 2017 | 12:06 pm
  #76  
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Default Re: Gibraltar

Originally Posted by Oink
Concerning the European parliament and Commission, are we not right to be suspicious of such large bureaucratic decision making structures?
We are.
The Sir Humphreys of the world will understand the dynamics that will, even to this day, be baffling and aggravating to the Merkels and Hollandes of europe. Imagine having 27 and a half Ministers, each competing for attention from a bunch of civil servants who, rumour has it, haven't done a real job in their lives and yet control the mechanism that is the EU. Who wouldn't want to wash their hands of a system designed to sieze up and be thoroughly corrupt.
The reason Merkel and Hollande are so upset is that they're stuck with it, and the reason men like Junker are so upset is that they know full well that the house of cards is teetering under the weight of a gravy train they have done so much to enlarge.
 
Old Apr 6th 2017 | 5:32 am
  #77  
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Default Re: Gibraltar

Originally Posted by Oink
Concerning the European parliament and Commission, are we not right to be suspicious of such large bureaucratic decision making structures? Should we not be concerned about centralized planning and its effect on the capacity of individual inquisitiveness and creativity? Brexit challenges the totalizing pan-European meta-narrative. It’s a re-conceptualization of how we experience and explain our existence as a culture in the world. I assert the decision to leave the Union is a bold and couragous challenge by the British people, to the idea of concentrated power and it imagines a more open, localized definition of democracy and human agency.
I prefer the European conceptualization. But I accept that I am in a minority (of 48%).
 
Old Apr 6th 2017 | 5:33 am
  #78  
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Default Re: Gibraltar

Originally Posted by dave_j
We are.
The Sir Humphreys of the world will understand the dynamics that will, even to this day, be baffling and aggravating to the Merkels and Hollandes of europe. Imagine having 27 and a half Ministers, each competing for attention from a bunch of civil servants who, rumour has it, haven't done a real job in their lives and yet control the mechanism that is the EU. Who wouldn't want to wash their hands of a system designed to sieze up and be thoroughly corrupt.
The reason Merkel and Hollande are so upset is that they're stuck with it, and the reason men like Junker are so upset is that they know full well that the house of cards is teetering under the weight of a gravy train they have done so much to enlarge.
Let me guess, UKIP?
 
Old Apr 6th 2017 | 5:36 am
  #79  
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Default Re: Gibraltar

Originally Posted by Oink
Concerning the European parliament and Commission, are we not right to be suspicious of such large bureaucratic decision making structures? Should we not be concerned about centralized planning and its effect on the capacity of individual inquisitiveness and creativity? Brexit challenges the totalizing pan-European meta-narrative. It’s a re-conceptualization of how we experience and explain our existence as a culture in the world. I assert the decision to leave the Union is a bold and couragous challenge by the British people, to the idea of concentrated power and it imagines a more open, localized definition of democracy and human agency.

Yes it imagines (fantasy). Creativity is in abundance. We saw examples of the Leave Campaign's creativeness on the back of the campaign bus.
 
Old Apr 6th 2017 | 5:43 am
  #80  
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Default Re: Gibraltar

Originally Posted by Shard
Let me guess, UKIP?
Nope, simply the dictates of common sense.
 
Old Apr 6th 2017 | 5:49 am
  #81  
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Default Re: Gibraltar

Originally Posted by dave_j
Nope, simply the dictates of common sense.
No such thing.
 
Old Apr 6th 2017 | 6:54 am
  #82  
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Default Re: Gibraltar

Originally Posted by Shard
No such thing.
Never trust appeals to 'common sense', it's the bread and butter of authoritarians and their apologists.
 
Old Apr 6th 2017 | 7:25 am
  #83  
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Default Re: Gibraltar

Originally Posted by Shard
No such thing.
Originally Posted by Oink
Never trust appeals to 'common sense', it's the bread and butter of authoritarians and their apologists.
It appears that sadly a little education is required for some on this forum. The concept is apparently well understood and the lack of any mention of authoritarian or apologist is indeed a mystery. One can only surmise that a reluctance to appreciate the benefits of common sense goes a long way to explain some of the eccentric attitudes expressed by the referenced posters.

Common Sense:

Cambridge: the basic level of practical knowledge and judgment that we all need to help us live in a reasonable and safe way

Collins: Your common sense is your natural ability to make good judgments and to behave in a practical and sensible way

Oxford: Good sense and sound judgement in practical matters.

Websters: sound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or facts
 
Old Apr 6th 2017 | 7:52 am
  #84  
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Default Re: Gibraltar

Originally Posted by dave_j
It appears that sadly a little education is required for some on this forum. The concept is apparently well understood and the lack of any mention of authoritarian or apologist is indeed a mystery. One can only surmise that a reluctance to appreciate the benefits of common sense goes a long way to explain some of the eccentric attitudes expressed by the referenced posters.

Common Sense:

Cambridge: the basic level of practical knowledge and judgment that we all need to help us live in a reasonable and safe way

Collins: Your common sense is your natural ability to make good judgments and to behave in a practical and sensible way

Oxford: Good sense and sound judgement in practical matters.

Websters: sound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or facts
I didn't say there wasn't a concept of 'common sense' it's just appeals to it in an argument or proposition are fallacious. It's similar to arguments that use fuzzy concepts like rationality and human nature, they seek to end dissenting opinion by employing notions of obviousness, as if their argument is beyond the possibility of bias becuase it evokes a kind of natural law or order.

Last edited by Oink; Apr 6th 2017 at 7:55 am.
 
Old Apr 6th 2017 | 7:53 am
  #85  
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Default Re: Gibraltar

Originally Posted by dave_j
It appears that sadly a little education is required for some on this forum. The concept is apparently well understood and the lack of any mention of authoritarian or apologist is indeed a mystery. One can only surmise that a reluctance to appreciate the benefits of common sense goes a long way to explain some of the eccentric attitudes expressed by the referenced posters.

Common Sense:

Cambridge: the basic level of practical knowledge and judgment that we all need to help us live in a reasonable and safe way

Collins: Your common sense is your natural ability to make good judgments and to behave in a practical and sensible way

Oxford: Good sense and sound judgement in practical matters.

Websters: sound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or facts
The Real World: Right wing propaganda roughly translatable as don't develop any independent critical thinking.

But I think you display common sense in the vernacular of the 1950's

Last edited by Novocastrian; Apr 6th 2017 at 7:57 am.
 
Old Apr 6th 2017 | 10:04 am
  #86  
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Default Re: Gibraltar

Originally Posted by dave_j
...wash their hands...the house of cards...teetering under the weight...gravy train...
Does the guinness book of records have a category for cliché overuse?

"...I have always avoided clichés like the plague. A cliché to me is like a red rag to a bull."
 
Old Apr 9th 2017 | 3:53 am
  #87  
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Default Re: Gibraltar

Originally Posted by Oink
Concerning the European parliament and Commission, are we not right to be suspicious of such large bureaucratic decision making structures? Should we not be concerned about centralized planning and its effect on the capacity of individual inquisitiveness and creativity? Brexit challenges the totalizing pan-European meta-narrative. It’s a re-conceptualization of how we experience and explain our existence as a culture in the world. I assert the decision to leave the Union is a bold and couragous challenge by the British people, to the idea of concentrated power and it imagines a more open, localized definition of democracy and human agency.
You know, Oink, that some people will think that you actually mean that drivel?
 
Old Apr 10th 2017 | 5:20 am
  #88  
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Default Re: Gibraltar

Of course he doesn't because it doesn't mean much (as I'm sure he knows!). If someone wrote that in an essay I was marking, I would be writing "source?" & "What is your evidence?" all over it!
 
Old Apr 10th 2017 | 5:45 am
  #89  
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Default Re: Gibraltar

Originally Posted by Snowy560
Of course he doesn't because it doesn't mean much (as I'm sure he knows!). If someone wrote that in an essay I was marking, I would be writing "source?" & "What is your evidence?" all over it!
To be fair, BE is hardly a place for rigourous argument.
 
Old Apr 10th 2017 | 5:48 am
  #90  
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Default Re: Gibraltar

I know ... I'm having a boring rainy day Oink can handle it!
 


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