Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

Smoking deaths are huge. My dad being one of them recently.

Of the above stats though, i wonder which one has the most impact on innocent people. For example, how much crime is attributed to each of the three? Smokers (apart from passive smoking related) seal their own fate and are highly likely able to afford to do this. Same as alcohol i'd assume (although i'm not sure of the stats of death of innocents caused by drink drivers). Drugs however look to me to be the largest contributor of upset, crime, death, violence, ruin etc etc.

Wonder what % users of the above steal, assault, rob, kill etc to get their next fix or to keep selling?

Just a few thoughts really.

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

Alot of people who use alcohol also commit crime to fund their addiction. many I worked with had criminal history for shoplifting, street robbery and burglary - as we all know booze isnt cheap. someone who drinks 2-3 litres of spirits a day is on a quite a habit, and are usually not in work - disability or sick benefit wont cover that habit. Though i get your point completely about the cost to society. My views on legalisation are neither for or against as i dont think its that easy.
Their are crime statistics related to drug crimes however it would be pointless posting them as there are no comparison statistics fro alcohol or possibly soking ( ??) related crimes.

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

The rest of what you post is indeed interesting and thought-provoking, but this was a low blow. The "taser incident," as you so lightly call it, resulted in the death of a man who was by all accounts guilty of nothing more than holding a stapler in a manner which apparently scared four armed RCMP officers.

You mention earlier in this thread that you were "disappointed" with the testimony of the officer who wielded the taser. I think the rest of Canada is a lot more than disappointed, and that in this and the other thread you have completely underestimated the damage these guys are doing to your profession. In the court of public opinion, the individuals whose actions resulted in his death (I hold back from saying "who killed him" although that's the overwhelming impression most people now have of the incident) have severely tarnished the public perception of the RCMP and have significantly damaged the bond of trust that has largely existed until now between the public and all law enforcement officers.

If the accounts given by officers after this event differ so fundamentally and in such important ways from the observed reality as captured on video by a passing traveller, how are we to trust that an RCMP officer's word is worth anything at all in any future case?

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

Brilliantly put, if I may say so.

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

I agree. They can protest as much as they like. They behaved like a bunch of thugs. Now their stories change and don't jive with observed reality. Respect for, and trust in, the Queens Cowboys has indeed taken a severe beating. Even I, and I consider myself a law abiding citizen, would not go out of my way to help them. Sad commentary. They should just have stuck to burning barns, like in the old days.

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

Simon, I don't know you, but I'd like to think you are a decent person. I'm sure if you saw another person in peril, police officer or otherwise and you could help, I believe you would.

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

Firstly, I never intended to offend anyone and apologise if did. I feel deeply for Robert and his mother. I have given up trying to get people to see things from a police point of view. I accept that you simply wont understand. Yes i realize the harm that has been done to the image of the force and it bothers me.

Secondly, police use of force is complicated to explain. The taser was designed to take control while reducing harm to the police and the public, and at the time fell very low on the use of force scale, just slightly above grabbing a hold of someone. Clearly there are many questions to be asked about these devices. I no longer carry one.

I am deeply troubled by the member's evidence (if you can call it that). I don't see a murderer, however. I saw immaturity, inexperience, very poor judgement, and a complete lack of integrity. He sounded like a use of force mannual, combative this and bodily harm that etc. I can't accept he intended to kill, however. Was he negligent? Perhaps, i really don't know anymore. Crown did clear the members from any criminal wrong doing.

As for the other 3 members. I think it's less clear. Had i have been there and one of my coworkers fired the taser, i likely would have assumed that he had seen something i hadn't and would have grabbed a hold of the guy. There's no time to second guess and you have to trust those that you work with (until proven otherwise i guess, sadly too late for Robert).

Things could have, should have been done differently. I believe, at times, that there has been a tendency to fall back on the use of the taser by junior officers who have never policed without it. The lines have become very blurry around the taser and how it should be best used along with other use of force options. However, you can't begin to imagine what a difficult job it is and you have to live with decisions that you make. Ask the member who shot and killed Jean Charles de Menezes in London. Is he a murderer? No.

There are 22,000 other men and woman who go out there every day and try to make your world a little safer. I'm one of them. If it makes you feel better by attacking me, then go ahead. I've got broad shoulders.

Thank you

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

It is a great shame these incidents with police seem to have similar hallmarks all over the world.
It would be refreshing to hear that the officers in question admitted they had a bad day at the office. There lies and totaly unrealistic reaction to the incident is the problem.
I agree with the resident cop here to some degree, that it is easy to pass judgement on actions undertaken under duress or personal threat, but 4 cops, guns and other weapons Vs one befuddled traveller beggars belief.
I would be not lump the Menezes incident in the same breath as the Vancouver Airport incident. London at the the time was in a state of extreme panic which must have affected the officers involved, I do not recall Vancouver airport having a mass of east European travellers wielding staplers at the time.
However the Airport and there protocol dealing with "foreigners" should be under the spotlight.
Sadly the upshot is lack of public trust for the institution at this time when the Gang problem needs public support.

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

Not wanting to ruffle feathers but i'm in total agreement with dboy.

One thing that does annoy me is that when Law Enforcement actually protect, save, solve, etc on a daily basis this very rarely reaches the eyes and ears of the public yet one incident that the media decide to run with (albeit it a serious incident) then it's all out in the open and judged upon by armchair jurors.

I see another law officer has had his life taken away in Northern Ireland too.

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

Red herring, innit?

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

What do you mean? :confused:

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

That the death of a cop in Northern Ireland has no bearing on the situation of the police in Vancouver. It's an attempt to glorify the job of the Vancouver police by association.

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

Nope not at all. Just a passing comment.

Maybe it's a subconscious comment mind you since the general thoughts in the UK seem to be "A policeman has been lured to his death and now the NI peace process may be in jeopardy. Oh well, what's for dinner.....??" Had it been a policeman arresting somebody and that person was killed accidentally then possibly the armchair jurors would be up in arms about it and pay much more attention.

But initially my comment wasn't a red herring.

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

Rightly so. While the death of a policeman in the line of duty is a terrible thing, it is a risk the officer has signed up to take. The death of a member of the public at the hands of the police isn't something to which the public have consented.

I'm not sure, btw, that indifference to the instability in Northern Ireland is widespread, there were plenty of concerned politicians and members of the public on the radio this morning.

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

Yes.

I would not denigrate police officers, because I believe that the vast majority do a good job, but to compare Canadian cops and Ulster cops is plain silly.