Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

oh ha ha BC - I have been v well behaved since my arrival

as Adele can testify - no drunken nights out AT all!!

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

I think it's true that most of the problems related to prostitution are because it's illegal or, if it's not illegal, related activities are. I agree that it's not going to go away. I hesitate to say that it should be legalized because that doesn't imply empowering the prostitutes. In the Netherlands prostitution is legal and while that may work well in small towns, legality doesn't prevent the mass trafficking of innocents to work as prostitutes in Amsterdam.

Similarly, in the Netherlands (and effectively in Canada) marijuana has been legalized (yes, I know that it's technically illegal in the Netherlands but the statute is dormant) but, in neither country, has that dealt with drug related problems. Both countries have gang wars over clearly illegal drugs.

I think it would be sensible to legalize all drug consumption. We can't stop it and we're missing out on a lot of tax revenue. The case for legalizing prostitution is less clear to me.

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

Wow, I'm actually impressed! I've had inner conflict for years over the drug issue and legalization. We are not losing the war on drugs, we've already lost. Had Mayerthorpe not happened, there may well have been a change in law to decriminalize marijuana. Although the fact that simple possession is a summary offence (under 30 grams) amounts to the same thing. Vancouver courts very rarely charge for simple possession. I never bothered forwarding charges for kids with dope, there just didn't seem to be any point.

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

How so? All criminals are not on drugs, for example, Bernie Madoff isn't a drug user. Drugs haven't influenced all crimes, the Krays, for example, weren't primarily drug dealers. There's an overlap between drugs and crime where drugs are illegal, but that's true of everything illegal. Gambling, for example, is an activity of criminals where it's illegal and not where it's not. There's no inherent link between drugs and criminality.

This doesn't follow at all. The police always want more power but whether or not the public would be well served by the police getting a handle on things is a moot point; many, I daresay most, people in Canada routinely break the law, we certainly don't want the police enforcing every statute.

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

Legalizing marijuana doesn't, imo, make a big difference. If drug related crime is to be eliminated most drugs will have to be legalized. That's problematic because the US and Columbian governments won't be thrilled with cocaine being legal in Canada. I don't think this mess will be sorted in my lifetime.

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

Nor mine being a few years younger than your good self!

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

Presumably in the same way that ending Prohibition was such a disaster: people can just walk in off the street and buy beer in a bar? Why, the horror!

And I certainly wouldn't deny that many problems are caused by alcohol abuse, but they're far less than the problems caused by prohibition.

Yet you support the very system which ensures those women have to go out and work the streets rather than buy the drugs for a couple of bucks a day at Walmart.

I don't want to see streets full of people on drugs either, but prohibition has been an absolute disaster; the only sensible solution to these problems is to legalise and control them rather than leave supply in the hands of violent criminals. Taxation of legal sales would also bring in money to deal with the consequences of drug use.

And, don't forget, Canadian troops are currently in Afghanistan protecting a government that has presided over a massive increase in heroin production after we kicked the drug-prohibitionist Taliban out of power. As is the norm with governments, one hand doesn't know what the other hand is doing.

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

You have more chance of being tazered to death by an RCMP operative.
There has always been a constant simmering gang problem that flares up every now and again. It is totally ludicrous for a society that indulges so heavily in the root cause ie distribution of BC bud, to moan and be demanding action.
It will settle down, I feel sorry for the cops as they have proven to be totally inept with dealing with the gang culture in BC. (They are the richest chapter in existence) If they could not deal with organised crime, they no chance with the disorganized nature of today's problem.
More encompassing powers will not help as the RCMP have proven themselves to the public as an untrustworthy institution.

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

-Two thirds of all crime is drug related. Be it druggies breaking into vehicles or viets with grows. The Krays, hmmm, wasn't that the 60s and in the UK? I thought we were talking about vancouver. There is an inherent link between the present problems and drugs. Period.

Organized criminals for the most part, fuel their enterprise by drugs - green south exchanged for powder north (and a few guns thrown in for good measure). They operate drug lines where buying drugs is as simple as ordering pizza. BC bud is exchanged kilo for kilo in LA, very, very lucrative. Last I heard a kilo of coke went for around $70,000. To put it into perspective a marihuana plant sells for around $1,000. So yes, there is a common denominator with drugs and crime in vancouver. With the exception of domestic disturbances and druken idiots either fighting or driving, drugs often played into calls i when i worked uniform. Shoplifters stealing everything from meat to batteries to sell for their next fix, muliti jurisdictional robberies of banks and 711's to pay for a 300 dollar a day drug habit. Break and enters to garages and residences, theft of computers from businesses. Even the guy who stole the Bill Reid collection - drug addict - i interviewed him. Prostitutes are not Julia Roberts types they are yes - drug addicts -.

Then there is major crime - kidnapping of those highly placed in the drug world to extort money from them. Murder after murder after murder of drug dealers over control of drugs lines where buying drugs is as easy as buying pizza. I'd go as far as to say that 80 percent of murders are drug related. There is the odd domestic or sexually motivated murder but most of our investigations are again, oh yes drug related.

There is an epidemic of home invasions of young up and coming gangsters 'ripping' run down houses because they think they have a grow in the basement. They, unlike the police, don't do an investigation, they just kick the door in to see if there's a grow or not. I see the aftermath day after day - don't tell me there is no common denominator. I have a front row seat into the drug world every day I go to work. And I'm not even a drug cop, at least not by choice.

True white collar crime is not drug fueled. As a society, we throw way more resources at investigating street level crime than we do, white collar crime. That's another entirely different issue and I;m not sure what that says about us as a society.

You really have no idea what it takes to be a cop in this day and age, our hands are tied. Here are some of the issues police face on major investigations:

-Victims who will often not cooperate with the police despite hours of attempted questioning and persuasion;
-Witnesses who recant statements due to fear of being murdered, witness intimidation and even the odd murder of witnesses. Not to mention, major credibility issues of witnesses who lie on the stand etc.
-Cultrual barriers of victim families who have an inherent distrust of the police and will not cooperate.
-Lack of resources. Major crime work is highly specialized. The guys you see spinning around in their shinny police cars are little more than judicial janitors and are not qualified to undertake major files.
-Lack of money for long term projects. I\ve been involved in files where we were spending $80,000 a day.
-Burnout - i have worked an average of 65 plus hours a week for the past 5 years. On major files it can be 17 - 18 hours a day. I have spent days where I sleep in my office. My marriage failed due to this - a lot of cops are burnt out wrecks.
-Outdated laws. Laws have not kept up with changes in technology. Criminals communicate by blackberries and other devices. We are not able to track what they are doing and thus can not build cases since present laws won't allow us to intercept such communications. Do the bad guys know it - of course they do. While search warrants magically appear on law on order in the real world it takes hours, and hours, even days of paper work. Evidence can be lost due to these delays.
-Intimidation. Prosecutors and investigators threatened by the same guys you see running around shooting each other.
-Disclosure law- police have to provide every piece of paper and every single thing they have gathered on an investigation. Defence know this and file application after application to over burden the police. Who, as already noted are under resourced. For example imagine an investigation where police intercpet 400,000 phone calls and only 10 or so are evidence bases. Even though there is often no relevance- police then have to transcribe the calls and remove any information that is private in nature. Conversations where bob phones jim to see if he saw the hockey game etc.
-Lack of sentences - ................. speaks for itself.
-Lawyers - low lifes who show their clients how to get away with crime. It's one thing to offer advice on one's rights, but to counsel how to commit an offence and not get caught? They really have sold their souls. So many of them are in the pockets of organized criminals.

There are countless dedicated and committed police officers out there. Doing the best they can with what they have. But what they have is simply not enough. If things are to change the pendulum needs to swing back the other way.

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

Comments about the tazer incident, are getting very, very tedious, and have no bearing on what is going on in Vancouver. I looked forward to the member's testimony who used the taser. Needless to say i'm bothered by his evidence, as i know a lot of my colleagues are. He's let us down. I initially thought there would be a reasonable explanation with respect to his reasoning for using the tazser, I'm having to reassess my position on that.

Its not the police that are the problem but lack of support of the police as far as the laws go. We cant even prove that the Hells Angels are an organised crime group. We spend more time investigating these morons than time they spend on jail. Bill C 95 had done nothing to assist the police.

Agreed that those who are regular consumers of BC Bud are now screaming fowl. Suck it up butter cup.


To read my views on the taser incident :

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...=594473&page=8

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

There is one particular gang favoured lawyer I'd like to see get a taste of his client's medicine. :mad: I have to deal with him on occasion, due to peripheral involvement with the fall-out from grow rips/ops/ etc. where kids were found. He is a prize p**** and needs to fall on his own sword.

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

No, the crime is _drug prohibition_ related. Just as the gang wars of the early 30s were largely alcohol prohibition related.

End the prohibition and you end the gang wars powered by drug money; but almost no-one wants to do that because they make too much money from the illegality of drugs. And I don't just mean directly through selling them or indirectly through bribes; tens of billions of dollars a year go into anti-drug programs around the world that would vanish if drugs were legalised, and even more into dealing with those two thirds of crimes that could largely be eliminated overnight.

And, best of all, we wouldn't have to give up any more freedoms to do so; prior to the rise of 'terrorism', the 'war on drugs' was method number one of imposing oppressive measures throughout the West.

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

An oversimplification me thinks. Not sure I'd want to live in a world where hard drugs are legal. Marijuana is one thing, but what about meth or cocaine? Drugs that are extremely harmful to one's health. The social and health care implications would be staggering. Where does one draw the line. Hardly the same as the prohib era. You really cant compare whiskey to crack.

One thing is for sure, the solution we have now is not working. I have no idea.

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

No I am saying 1) prostitution is a method of supporting a drug habit.
2) That organised crime (and yes there can be a distinction made between gangs and organised crime) does have interests in many aspects of the sex trade
3) that legalising drugs MAY POSSIBLY PARTIALLY due to the factors mentioned above lead to more women (and indeed men) 'selling their bodies' in dodgy situations.

Re: Gang warfare in Vancouver?
 

Well I dont think I can disagree with anything said here. :sneaky:
Especially the last sentiment.