|
Re: EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Shard
(Post 12096480)
If the concern is multinationals and big banks, a larger international political system is a counter balance. Putting up a fence with European neighbours is a backward step.
I can't imagine that the slight structural shudders in the economy will affect you terribly so what's is your real concern? Is it an identity issue? |
Re: EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Oink
(Post 12096653)
There's no fence, metaphorical or real for you, you'll still be able to go on your holidays to Magaluf and Ayia Napa, there just might be some restrictions on bringing back booze and fags again.
I can't imagine that the slight structural shudders in the economy will affect you terribly so what's is your real concern? Is it an identity issue? |
Re: EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Shard
(Post 12096540)
It is certainly being framed that way, and hard core Brexit factions (Wesminster, media, etc.) are setting that tone. The man on the street in Barnsley or Harlow is right pissed. Instead, the tone should be that the elite is questioning the will of the electorate. As Bristol said, is that your final answer.
The fact that so many are now questioning the integrity of the high court judges, and even imploring that they be more political, further evidences the widespread ignorance in the electorate. As Ken Clarke has pointed out, if you asked the electorate whether we should invest in the National Gallery or a theme park, you would probably end up with a theme park. The referendum was a mistake, the result may have been an error, the impact is enormous, and therefore at very least, the country should be certain it wants to travel down this rocky path. |
Re: EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Novocastrian
(Post 12096657)
For me it is. I'm a European ahead of being English.
|
Re: EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Oink
(Post 12096653)
.
I can't imagine that the slight structural shudders in the economy will affect you terribly so what's is your real concern? Is it an identity issue? 1. Young people won't easily be able to live/work in Europe/Britain (including young Shard) 2. UK economy will suffer for a decade plus 3. Britain becomes a nastier place, many Europeans already reporting this, and I feel a sense of indirect shame 4. The existing arrangement, though imperfect, is vastly superior in most ways, and is being undone by a narrow slice of clueless citizens (not all the Brexiteers, but the ignorant ones). That smacks of national incompetence. 5. Identity. Absolutely. Much prefer to be a European than a Brit, let alone a Little Englander. |
Re: EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Oink
(Post 12096659)
That's the type of condescending attitude that causing the cultural rift. People like Clarke are simply privileging one view over the other but positing that theirs is somehow correct. This sort of attitude is vile and corrosive. In a democracy, it is rule by the people, by the demos, not by rule by some old flaccid fat white bloke.
|
Re: EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Oink
(Post 12096660)
What do you mean by it?
|
Re: EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Shard
(Post 12096685)
...a narrow slice of clueless citizens (not all the Brexiteers, but the ignorant ones)...
You really don't know whether to laugh or be worried. :unsure: |
Re: EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Oink
(Post 12096659)
That's the type of condescending attitude that causing the cultural rift. People like Clarke are simply privileging one view over the other but positing that theirs is somehow correct. This sort of attitude is vile and corrosive. In a democracy, it is rule by the people, by the demos, not by rule by some old flaccid fat white bloke.
In a Parliamentary democracy, it's rule by democratically elected representatives of the people. If the people are fool enough to vote for flaccid fat blokes or similar, then so be it. I assume you'll be voting for Drumpf? |
Re: EU Referendum
|
Re: EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Novocastrian
(Post 12096740)
...
In a Parliamentary democracy, it's rule by democratically elected representatives of the people... |
Re: EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Shard
(Post 12096685)
1. Young people won't easily be able to live/work in Europe/Britain (including young Shard)
2. UK economy will suffer for a decade plus 3. Britain becomes a nastier place, many Europeans already reporting this, and I feel a sense of indirect shame 4. The existing arrangement, though imperfect, is vastly superior in most ways, and is being undone by a narrow slice of clueless citizens (not all the Brexiteers, but the ignorant ones). That smacks of national incompetence. 5. Identity. Absolutely. Much prefer to be a European than a Brit, let alone a Little Englander. 2. Anybody with a passing interest in economics knows there's absolutely no way to predict the future. We can tell you what happened but but not what's going to happen. 3. A nastier place? You probably need to define this and operationalize this, because I have no idea what you're talking about. 4. A narrow slice? 52% of those who voted with a 72% turn out is hardly a narrow slice. 5. I hypothesize that none of us identify with a single cultural entity. So we value cultural symbols and signs at a local, regional, national and transnational level. Its not, either or. Someone from Orkney may value things that are specific to Orkney, Scotland and Europe. We are all cultural schizophrenics in some way. ;) |
Re: EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Shard
(Post 12096688)
I simply don't get that. It's a kind of reverse condescension to suggest that the low brow interests of the majority are of superior importance.
What I am just saying that upper classes have long their views, practices and interests while denigrating those that are particular to the working class. Parliament chose to consult the people on a very important issue and a majority of people who voted for leaving the European Union, the decision should be respected rather than derided. |
Re: EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Shard
(Post 12096688)
It's a kind of reverse condescension to suggest that the low brow interests of the majority are of superior importance.
Ideally, the 'brow' interest or status of any voter, whether high or low, should not affect the weight associated with any individual vote. However.. in the USA, I believe some democratically based election strategies have ensured that US presidents have been elected on a monority vote and it's well understood that there is still a reluctance to allow universal suffrage where the coloured or poor voter is concerned. Some understand these to be too 'low brow' to vote and thereby negate any interests they may have in favour of the 'high brows', a shameful argument in my view. |
Re: EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Novocastrian
(Post 12096657)
For me it is. I'm a European ahead of being English.
|
| All times are GMT -12. The time now is 4:12 pm. |
Powered by vBulletin: ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.