mandymoochops

Whilst reading the headlines I fell upon this one

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7474801.stm

I read through the article and have to say that personally I felt more than a little dismayed by this proposal.

Not because I don't think it is a good thing to be "fair" to all but it just made me think things are going too far that you may be allowed to "discriminate in favour of".

There are views of people on here that I would like to hear on this subect and how they think that this proposal can work.

iaink

Its a tricky one isnt it.

If two canditates are soooo closely matched that it comes down to this, then choosing the one that balances your ethnic / gender profile sort of makes sense in order to make sure that overall you are not discriminating as an organisation...but it sucks if you are the candidate passed over for that reason.

On the other hand how often is the hiring decision that balanced? and, if you are discriminating, either conciously or subconciously, then you are going to favour one candidate over the other anyway so "positive" descrimination to balance the organisation becomes a moot point, unless you flat out say "wo/men only will be considered" up front, which does not seem to be the gist of this?

Publishing the difference in pay by gender is a good idea I think, in general terms. In this day and age there is no reasonable excuse to pay women less than men for doing the same job. Why stop with public sector employers though, they are not the worst offenders I suspect.

The idea of streamlining all the various legislation looks like a good one, as long as they dont balls it up, I wish politicians would do that more often, but I cant see how the "positive" discriminiation is going to work in practice without it degenerating into tokenism. Overall to me it smells of "good intention" and as we know, that is what paves the road to hell. It will be interesting to see how (if?) it works in practice.

mandymoochops

Take the first papragraph

"She said firms should be able to choose a woman over a man of equal ability if they wanted to - or vice versa. "

Isn't that what companies do anyway in a close race between candidates - like you said Iain be it conciously or subconciously - so now its OK to do whats been done all along.

So is she now saying that people have no right to be sued for discrimination - because its OK??? In which case reversing the discrimiantion laws purpose!!

daft batty

I'm confused by it all. I'm in favour of positive discrimination as I would want it to work in my favour. Selfish, but lifes like that. I am applying for jobs right now and am so worried that people won't think I can do stuff because I am deafened. I would like to have the chance to show them that I can.

But how will it work? suppose you have equal candidates, a black person, a white person, a person with a disability, an old person, a man, a woman?? So does this mean you dont have to chose the deaf old white woman (me) and can choose the young man?? bah humbug??

Am I missing the point of this legislation altogether?

macadian

Positive discrimination is alive and well and has been for some considerable time. Take the police service for example. Quotas of white applicants opossed to ethnic minorities are set for recruitment. Times I have been told by white guys applying for servive with some forces here in Canada etc only to be told "we would like to take you on but our white quota is full...we can only take on applicants from ethnic minorities"...What a load of bollocks...if the applicants fit the bill whatever their colour, creed etc, then it should be a level playing field for all! Discrimination is discrimination...the word 'positive' does not alter that fact!

BristolUK

I was surprised at the part about public sector employers having to disclose the gender pay gap in their organisation.

I would have thought that the public sector was far more likely NOT to have a gender gap than the private sector where individual salaries may be negotiated. Certainly the Civil Service pays according to grade and the salary scales are in the public domain unlike other organisations.

Discrimination obviously goes on in the Civil Service with most of the senior positions still being dominated by men, but pay is clearly a grade matter, not gender.

Arrona

if age discrimanation has been enforced since 2006 why is it that minimum wage rates different for 16-18 year olds?

daft batty

experience??

Ben W Bell

There is no such thing as positive discrimination, all discrimination is negative. So called positive discrimination of one person means it's negative for someone else.

dbd33

Here's a true story about discrimination. In about 1985 a NDP government came to power in Ontario, the leader at the time was Bob Rae. The NDP looked at Ontario Hydro, then an efficient utility largely staffed by people from Scotland, and changed the mandate of the utility to include "reflect the demographics of the population of Ontario". Hydro's bean counters interpreted this literally, n% Poles, n% Russians, etc.

At the time I was both a pimp and a contractor. As a pimp I pitched a Native Canadian who had ideal skills for an advertised position; they didn't take him because their Injun quota was full. At about the same time I was contacted by a manager who said he'd made a mishire, "this guy meets our quota but he's useless, can you shadow him?" "shadow" means do the guy's job but let him seem to do it. I did his job part time until 2006 when he retired. I think it fair to say that he drew an average of $100,000 a year for 20 years for doing nothing except being the right ethnicity in the right place at the right time.

Positive discrimination has served me well, not just at work but because my children have been eligible for education in French language schools and so attended better schools than I think would otherwise have been the case. And, of course, I've had steady work as a result of it.

I don't argue in favour of positive discrimination, I just say that you can't predict the results.

montreal mike

It will also give women the right to breastfeed in public and outlaw "homophobic bullying" in the workplace.

The bullying bit makes sense (that it be outlawed) but do I not understand the right to public breastfeeding.

What exactly do I not understand?

montreal mike

The problem with so called positive discrimination is that the old farts end up last, specifically the older white males.

Harrypottermouse

Just trying to understand what you don't about the Public BF thing before I try to approach subject.

montreal mike

Put bluntly, some might not appreciate being next to someone breastfeeding. What I am getting at is the lack of privacy.

Harrypottermouse

It is still not clear - lack of privacy for the mother?