Very sad but at least they are both OK, that's the main thing.

Oh how sad, I'm glad they are both OK though. You'll have to get one of them llama thingies, not the same as Duke but probably safer for Cash

Dog run or fenced off area?

Newfoundland dog? They don't roam far. I have one and none of our land is fenced. The furthest he goes is to the end of the drive and back!

No he's not a Newfoundland he's a great pyrenees. And their terrortory is "as far as the eye can see" when protecting livestock.

Which is great for him, he's not the one we are worried about, it's our Springer who up until yesterday didn't go with him when he went on his escapades. Then he does it twice.

We have 10 acres that are fenced off with 4ft steel / page wire so thats fine, but we also have 4 sets of double gates and a set of single ones (to different areas of the pasture / out onto the neighbours land), which if it were not the middle of winter, we would have filled in (they are th bar gates and the dogs are jumping through the railings) - but as it happens there's up to 4ft of snow drifted around some of them and you just can't get to them (the dogs can as they are light enough not to sink through it - I ended up waist deep iin the pitch black last night when searching).

Would a run defeat the object of having a Pyr to guard the sheep??? And it certaily wouldn't be fair on the Springer to keep him in there 24/7.

Bugger, keeping one in the house isn't an option either as my hubbys son is allergic to dogs so thats why they are outdoor dogs.

Shit shit shit.

I had the Pyr on a really long tie to a tree earlier, course Cash went to play with him and ended up garroting himself and it took me 5 minutes to get him free as it was wrapped around legs / body / neck

Dear lord why are these things not easy

I didn't explain my self very well! What I meant to say was what about getting a Newfoundland? They don't roam far, and seem to stay on 'their' property. Not sure about their sheep guarding abilities though!

So sad about Duke. I hope he finds his new forever home soon.

ahhh sorry WM. We got Duke because of his sheep guarding abilities (plus i'd alsways wanted one so it was a double whammy).

The ONLY concern was whether or not Cash would follow him and as i've said up until yesterday he didn't.

I think if his original owners have him back then a donkey or as PP says, a Llama might be in order.

I have to finish insulating the basement ceilings now but will talk to some owners on a Pyr forum and see if they can offer any suggestions.

Have you considered something like this Moo?:
http://www.canadapets.com/wireless_fence.htm

Lets them have acres to run around in, but keeps them as close to home as you like.

Won't that psychological scar the dog for life? Every time it hears beeping it will be cowering in terror!

No, for the most part they work really well, used to use one on our malamute, he just learned how far he could go and didn't go any further. The only time it cause an issue was when he was chasing gophers and would run straight through it, then of course he wouldn't want to come back through.

A rescue collie I have was terrible for running off, and she's worn a collar for the past 10 years when she's off leash. I turn the electric zap off, and she just responds to the beep, and is 100% reliable. It's a matter of being a responsible owner and training the dog appropriately.

We use one for our lab, it works great. Soon as she hears the beep she stops, so she never gets zapped. The only prob is when the battery runs out on her collar, she tries a few runs to next door to have a chat to their dog, but other than that would recommend it.

Yes they are worth a thought, thanks.

so the plan of attack at the minute is switching the dogs over on their tie chains (well not chains but one of those long wire things you wrap around a tree (got a slightly shorter one so Cash doesn't get tangled up), changing them out 4 times a day so they each get their time to run around.

Bloody typical that Duke doesn't want to go anywhere when Cash is tied up so just sits there protecting him

Got a friend coming in a couple of days with a bobcat to clear as much of the snow as possible so we can fence off the gates and we will go from there.

It's a pain and I feel bad for the dogs, but its a temporary measure until we see how the gate thing goes!!!!!!

ps looked into those wireless things, apparently varied succes with Pyrs because of their strong will to roam / chase predators/ plus boosting the fencing will be a better option to stop the nasty little critters from getting in when the sheep arrive.

Will keep everyone posted!

Good to know. Toying with the idea of getting a mutt, but don't have a dog run. Something like this might fit the bill as I live next to a forest with bears, cougars, coyotes and probably the odd sasquatch.