Re: The country we left behind
 

Sadly, it's all so believable.

It's unbelievable that it's been allowed to happen - along with zero hours contracts, risking loss of JSA for not taking zero hours contracts, withdrawal of disability benefits for mentally ill, other sanctions and all the rest. :(

Re: The country we left behind
 

It's only remarkable because it's in the UK and then was an era there where different, we might say European, employment standards applied. If someone drops dead in America or Africa because they worked instead of going to the doctor no one bats an eyelid; they likely couldn't afford to have a complicated condition like diabetes anyway. Here, in Canada, I haven't heard of workers being expected to provide substitutes or to pay a fine but it's routine that going to the doctor means not getting paid for the time and it's not at all uncommon to fire people if they get sick.

Yes, the past few UK governments have made things worse for the public at large and, yes, the current one is doing damage on the scale of Thatcher but, in terms of employment arrangements, they're only making the UK like Canada.

Re: The country we left behind
 

It actually makes me think North America rather than Victorian Times...with a little bit of Shine On Harvey Moon (post WW2) thrown in.

Re: The country we left behind
 

Yes, I made a similar point somewhere here recently along the lines some "good things" not being in North America but since they were never here they weren't missed, while giving up such advantages was worse.

and who'd have thought that possible :ohmy:
:nod:
Although 'only' making the UK like Canada isn't the way I'd put it. :frown:

Re: The country we left behind
 

Even for salaried employees? Aren't there sick days? If someone is being paid by the hour or day, it's understandable that there's no pay if they don't show (though not a fine, of course!) but I thought reasonable doc appointments were fairly standard?

Re: The country we left behind
 

In the cut-throat world of IT pimpdom that's perhaps the case. Certainly, one feels for dbd33's employees/contractors.;) In the regular corporate world things can be a little different IME. We have sick days, flex days & a general attitude that if you need a couple of hours off to go to the Dr then that's OK providing you make up the time. Although even in our enlightened world, the company clamped down on the amount of sick days a year or two back. Essentially one gets 5 days off sick then has to start using vacation, flex days or unpaid leave before moving onto short term disability. That rather flies in the face of the corporate wellness initiatives and advice such as "if you get sick don't come into work and spread it to others." But there you go.

Re: The country we left behind
 

I have no idea why diabetes could be called a "complicated condition." It isn't complicated at all. One monitors one's blood and takes one's medication accordingly. I can't imagine many occupations where one does not have sufficient time to be able to do so.

The only reason I was medically discharged from the Army for becoming a Type I diabetic was that, because of the unit I was serving with, they were concerned about what I would do if they were unable to resupply me with insulin. They would have allowed me to remain in the military but I elected not to.

Re: The country we left behind
 

I don't know if by "couldn't afford to have a complicated condition like diabetes anyway" dbd meant literally couldn't afford the costs - the drugs, needles and testing stuff - being in the sort of employment that might not cover such things or just couldn't afford the time but your description doesn't apply to everyone.

What about the Endocrinologist? Possible Nephrologist? Associated conditions? The annual eye exams which may be more frequent depending on any issues. Foot care? Nerve damage? Regular Blood tests and subsequent appointments with doc to review? Other costs associated with such matters?

Re: The country we left behind
 

Generally, people do not choose to take up contracting late in life. The forty year olds contracting around here were typically employees in a previous life but got the heave-ho. There are two cases of people fired for having heart attacks on this team, different former employers too.

Diabetes seemed complicated from the article on the dead driver. He wanted a different doctor for eyes than for the rest of him. It may not be complicated but it is a condition with ongoing costs so I think you'd want to be quite well off before getting into something like that in America.

Re: The country we left behind
 

Fair enough. I was thinking about a condition that would require dialysis as being complicated.

I agree, but he lived in England, didn't he?

Re: The country we left behind
 

Yes. My original point was that, rather than it being generally shocking that someone died because they went to work instead of going to the doctor, it is shocking only because he lived in England.

Re: The country we left behind
 

The fundamental problem with the NHS in the UK is that GPs are basically the only entry way into the NHS. If you've got a big boil on your neck, you can't make an appointment to see an NHS boil specialist. If you've got a strange liquid seeping from your bottom you can't make an appointment to see an arse doctor.... it's all referrals via the GP.

When you think that the GP is also the focal point/bottleneck for people getting repeat asthma prescriptions and old biddies having their weekly day out, it's a wonder that there's only been one Harold Shipman discovered to date. I'd be well over a thousand by now if I was an NHS GP.

But the fact is they are stuck in the past. They should offer an 0600-2200hr service (on a rota basis), otherwise there is no alternative but A&E. The UK can afford to pay GPs whatever they want, provided they provide the care that we all want.

Re: The country we left behind
 

Bold one: Sorry to hear that mate.
Bold two: Like the Walk-in Clinic up the road from me?

Re: The country we left behind
 

Fortunately most of my orifices are largely seepage-free. On point 2, my reference point is a small rural village. Despite serving a population of only around 2,000 people when including the surrounding villages, it can apparently be about 2 weeks to get a doctor's appointment. I have no complaints whatsoever about the NHS save one - that of getting the first contact. The clinic is very well regarded, but is definitely a 0900-1700 kind of place. Not enough doctors, clearly.

All the above is qualified by my admission that I haven't been to the doctor at all since 2002 when I got a vasectomy, and the vet (well, it was Norfolk) complimented me on my testicles. So naturally I won't hear a word against the NHS.

Re: The country we left behind
 

One wonders what exactly one can say by way of a compliment to the testicles. Unusually large? Nicely compact? Remarkably retractable? Very smoothly shaven? A well matched pair, same colour and everything?