Boeing 737 Max 8

Old Jun 10th 2019, 1:30 am
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow View Post
As far as I recall, if an airline books you with a short connection time it must honour the ticket. (If you miss the connection, they must carry you on the next flight with no charge.) That's always been my experience with BA, going through LHR to Norway. But maybe it applies only if it's the same airline on both legs. Or, they might have changed since the last time I flew that way four years ago. What's the story today?
I thought so too which is why I asked the question just to make sure. Agent told me if the flight was late they would rebook the next flight at no charge, if we missed connection because of passport control or security then it was at our cost. The connecting flight would be with Air Lingus. Trip Advisor suggests that 1 hour 15 minutes is not enough time as we would be going through Immigration as the next leg was a domestic flight. I was surprised since this was not something that was our fault but Air Canada's responsibility since we had made a booking for a direct flight and they changed changed it because of the 737 issue. Again, the agent did not seem to be sure of anything and she may have given us wrong information. She also was suggesting rebooking flight out of Gatwick instead of Heathrow which certainly would complicate matters even further. Annoyed because we could have booked Air Transat into Dublin at the time of initial booking at a cheaper rate.

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Old Jun 10th 2019, 2:44 am
  #152  
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

Originally Posted by thistlehollyberry View Post
I thought so too which is why I asked the question just to make sure. Agent told me if the flight was late they would rebook the next flight at no charge, if we missed connection because of passport control or security then it was at our cost. The connecting flight would be with Air Lingus. Trip Advisor suggests that 1 hour 15 minutes is not enough time as we would be going through Immigration as the next leg was a domestic flight. I was surprised since this was not something that was our fault but Air Canada's responsibility since we had made a booking for a direct flight and they changed changed it because of the 737 issue. Again, the agent did not seem to be sure of anything and she may have given us wrong information. She also was suggesting rebooking flight out of Gatwick instead of Heathrow which certainly would complicate matters even further. Annoyed because we could have booked Air Transat into Dublin at the time of initial booking at a cheaper rate.
The agent could be mistaken, when I worked at YVR we had at least one or 2 people a day who missed their flights because of customs delays, they were just rebooked onto the next available, no charge, If it were the last flight of the night, the airline wouldn't however cover hotel or anything just rebooking onto the next available flights.

The 737 issue is causing AC issues, they are really short aircraft this summer, and some routes simply cannot be flown due to lack of aircraft.

Did you try calling back to get another agent?

Sometimes with call centers its better to simply hang up and try again with another person.

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Old Jun 10th 2019, 2:05 pm
  #153  
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

Originally Posted by thistlehollyberry View Post
Our Air Canada 737 flights from Toronto to Shannon (July) were rerouted through Heathrow with a 1 hr 15 minute connection time. When I expressed concern that that might be enough time to transit through Immigration and was told that if I missed the flight I would have to rebook another flight at my cost. The next connection was 6 hours. I was then offered a connection via Gatwick. The agent had no idea about geography. I proposed Toronto to Dublin on the inward flight and Shannon via Heathrow on the return flight as it was a better connection. I was told no I couldn't do that because it would involve more than one airport! I asked to speak with a manager and was told that managers don't speak with customers. I could have booked initially Toronto to Dublin at a lesser cost but chose to pay more for a direct flight to Shannon. I was not impressed with Air Canada's customer service.
AC's customer service frequently fails to impress... :-)

In this instance, you are being offered a routing via LHR because the direct Toronto-Shannon flight is suspended due to the MAX grounding. (As is my frequent route, St John's-London). AC are absolutely responsible for getting you onto another flight if you miss the connection, given that they are booking the whole thing for you. If I look at Toronto to Shannon flights today, it picks up AC848 to London and AC6917 a codeshare flight operated by Aer Lingus. The bolding is important. AC has a codeshare agreement with Aer Lingus so they are 100% responsible for getting you to destination in the event of a misconnect. If a call centre employee tells you different then they are wrong. Hang up and call again.

The Heathrow connection tool indicates that this connection is possible but tight: https://www.heathrow.com/flight-conn...-JUL-2019/2/7E (I picked a random date in July). Both flights are from Terminal 2.

In terms of offering alternative flights - you did the right thing in investigating alternatives and proposing them to the agent. Again, trying with a different agent might obtain better results. It is AC who have inconvenienced you through the MAX grounding (Although it's not their fault).

HTH
AX
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Old Jun 10th 2019, 3:07 pm
  #154  
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

[QUOTE=Atlantic Xpat;12696006]AC's customer service frequently fails to impress... :-)
The Heathrow connection tool indicates that this connection is possible but tight: https://www.heathrow.com/flight-conn...-JUL-2019/2/7E (I picked a random date in July). Both flights are from Terminal 2.

.Thank you for this great reference tool. Previously we had a 3 hour connection in Heathrow - Shannon-Heathrow-Toronto so no incoming immigration involved. - we caught the flight with 10 minutes to spare even though flight was on time. For some reason with construction and security that morning nothing was moving so as you can appreciate I was a little gun-shy about a 1 hr 15 minute connection time with immigration thrown into the mix.


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Old Jun 11th 2019, 7:10 am
  #155  
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

In an ideal world we'd look at the MAX design, we'd consider the reasoning behind it's conception, we'd understand why it was built as it was and we'd throw the result into the bin and screw the lid on tightly so it would never see the light of day.
But it didn't happen, Boeing built and sold hundreds of these to greedy businesses and continues to give birth to over 40 every month to be parked in safe places awaiting their turn to serve a reluctant customer base.
We live in the real world. These flawed mutant descendants of a successful dynasty should have been culled but who could be found to wield the knife?
The truth of the matter is that, much like those undeserving banks of 2008, this spawn of Boeing is simply too financially shackled to the profit to be allowed to fail.
Like the bereaved spouse of times past where a respectable time must have passed before a new spouse is taken, the MAX must serve it's time before being allowed back to join the ranks of wealth generating transports.
So.. when all the dust has settled, will this black sheep be allowed back into the family?
I suspect that the price of black wool will take some time to match that of the white and it may be that given time the black sheep mightyet be shuffled into retirement early if it's fleece fails to earn it's feed.
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Old Jun 12th 2019, 9:06 pm
  #156  
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

American Airlines plans to have executives and management fly on MAX aircraft with crews once the ban is lifted before placing them back into revenue service as a way to boost confidence in passengers.

https://business.financialpost.com/t...box=1560372194
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Old Jun 13th 2019, 2:04 pm
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
American Airlines plans to have executives and management fly on MAX aircraft with crews once the ban is lifted before placing them back into revenue service as a way to boost confidence in passengers.

https://business.financialpost.com/t...box=1560372194
What makes them think that would boost confidence? Seems like an act of desperation to me.
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Old Jun 13th 2019, 2:19 pm
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
American Airlines plans to have executives and management fly on MAX aircraft with crews once the ban is lifted before placing them back into revenue service as a way to boost confidence in passengers.
Reminded me of Y2K and the scare that air traffic control would fail and non-compliant on-board systems would make airplanes fall out of the sky; there was a rumour that the Chinese tech experts who told their leadership they had successfully protected against any mishap - were required to be airborne at midnight.

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Old Jun 13th 2019, 3:48 pm
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

Originally Posted by caretaker View Post
Reminded me of Y2K and the scare that air traffic control would fail and non-compliant on-board systems would make airplanes fall out of the sky; there was a rumour that the Chinese tech experts who told their leadership they had successfully protected against any mishap - were required to be airborne at midnight.
Oh all the Y2K stickers on everything at work, said something like Y2K compliant with the techs employee number.

Those computers we were using were so old, from the early 80;s, original computers the airline put in when they opened the station in 1984 or so. Green or orange screen, and had to learn and memorize crazy entries to do things.

If back in the day you ever wondered why check in agents typed so much, if only you could see the amount of entries that needed to be done to complete tasks.

Nothing like the point and click of today.

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Old Jun 13th 2019, 6:16 pm
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

Originally Posted by MidAtlantic View Post
What makes them think that would boost confidence? Seems like an act of desperation to me.
Don't know but the airline executives seem to think it will help.

American, United, Westjet CEO's have all said they will be on their airlines first flight, AA seems to have gone further by saying executives will also be flying on training flights prior to the plane going back into service.






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Old Jun 13th 2019, 9:35 pm
  #161  
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
American Airlines plans to have executives and management fly on MAX aircraft with crews once the ban is lifted before placing them back into revenue service as a way to boost confidence in passengers.
What else can they do?
They have empty airplanes gathering dust and deteriorating and parked, losing money and causing problems with every second that passes.
The world now understands how Boeing created an airplane designed to fly itself into the ground and Boeing's anti-competitive actions in the past might bring the odd chicken home to roost when they need to convince foreign regulators that they now know what they're doing.
The educated customer, given the choice, would fly anything but the MAX, it'll be an obvious avoidable risk. They'll be shaking their heads wondering as they board an airplane bearing the word MAX.
So what to do if you've bought these white elephants and have shareholders ringing the phones off the hook asking 'When?'
I suspect that they have yet to convince their pilots and crew to fly and it may be that one condition of crew flying is that senior executives accompany them to share the risk and offering this is probably a non-offer and more like a forced response. I'm tempted to wonder whether a MAX pilot would take his airplane into the skies if the executive scheduled to fly missed the flight.
They could offer substantial reductions in ticket prices but this negates the choice of the MAX in the first place and once in place it may become difficult to remove, but it may be the only way to fill the planes and show them to be safe and more importantly improve cash flow.
The other, in fact the only, action that'll erase memory of a catastrophic series of decisions made by Boeing executives is time.. and that'll cost a great deal.. and probably cost some executives their jobs when the dust settles a little more.





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Old Jun 13th 2019, 9:53 pm
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

If they gave me free international flights I'd take them, but I wouldn't pay to fly in one.
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Old Jun 14th 2019, 7:46 am
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

In view of this -

Bayer was ordered to pay more than $2 billion in damages to a California couple who claimed they got cancer as a result of using the company’s Roundup weedkiller for about 30 years.
It will be interesting to see the financial implications IF & when liability is established.
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Old Jun 16th 2019, 4:14 pm
  #164  
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

This investigation into how the MAX was certified and allowed to fly is opening quite a large can absolutely jam packed with worms. Anyone who's been following this episode will be becoming increasingly concerned about the functional reliability of the parts that keep these tin cans in the sky. Now I know that statistically air travel is probably the safest way to get from A to B, certainly safer than simply crossing the road, but.. there's this feeling that it's becoming less safe and incidents like those with the MAX serve to concentrate attention and perhaps it's because flying is so safe that we demand it remain so.
Even so, some of the antics of Boeing in this time of increased nit picking do make me wonder whether they need a root and branch overhaul.
For example Reuters tells me that Boeing engineers ' are reducing the scope and duration of certain costly physical tests used to certify the planemaker’s new aircraft'.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-f...-idUSKCN1TH0A3
Now you'd think that when Boeing is being accused of stretching the rules a little to be able to rush the MAX into the world you'd think that decisions that make such news would be swiftly put in the nearest bin.
And when any Boeing news is placed under increased scrutiny, the following article does generate some basic questions.
https://www.theguardian.com/business...7-safety-fears
I'm no aviation engineer but presumably this system uses a PLC to monitor a switch and when the switch is made it issues commands to open and close a selection of valves. The fact that such a simple procedure fails makes me wonder just how robust more complex systems are and who exactly is testing and signing off such designs.
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Old Jun 18th 2019, 7:34 pm
  #165  
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max 8

Not a firm order, so could change but IAG has signed an LOI for 200 MAX aircraft which would be destined for BA, Vueling and Level.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48682123
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