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B.C. votes to scrap HST

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B.C. votes to scrap HST

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Old Aug 29th 2011 | 5:00 am
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Default Re: B.C. votes to scrap HST

Originally Posted by dbd33
Well, that's not true, even at a glance. Health and Safety rules and Environment regulation are bad for business but good for workers.
That I disagree with entirely. A poor health and safety policy results in worker downtime, poor morale and reduced productivity. Environmental responsibility is good PR as well as protecting where we live. The third world, where a lot of manufacturing has been shifted has a worse record.

One thing that always puzzled me, organised labour goes on strike and they persecute anyone who does not comply or they force complicity. Government or businesses are accused of heavy handiness or big brother tactics when the boots on the other foot. Somewhat hypocritical it seems.

One side is no better than the other.
 
Old Aug 29th 2011 | 5:19 am
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Default Re: B.C. votes to scrap HST

For me, the HST reminded me far too much of the EU, trying to centralize taxes and authority to one central body. Whats the point of even having a BC parliament if it can't manage it's own taxes? There are ways the tax could have been made business friendly without such a handover of power to the federal government.

Below, I have quoted FightHST's reasons to vote yes.

10. HST hurts families, seniors and low income people most:
The HST is a regressive tax that forces middle and lower income people to pay a greater proportion of their income to acquire the same goods and services as those with higher incomes. The HST hurts poor people the most.

9. HST is inflationary:
To avoid a decrease in the standard of living, HST paid by consumers must be charged back to employers in the form of higher wages – ultimately wiping out any benefits to business. In Europe, the VAT started at about 6% in most countries and has grown to as high as 25% in places like Denmark, Hungary and Sweden.

8. HST is economically counter-intuitive:
BC’s big resource companies get most of their money from selling goods overseas and to the United States – which is new money coming in from consumers outside BC. Exempting business from sales taxes means government is taking all of its sales tax revenues from consumers inside our economy and then transferring $2 billion of it back to corporations mostly headquartered in Europe, Asia or the U.S. That doesn’t make economic sense.

7. HST curbs consumption, reduces tax revenues and increases the tax burden:
The HST in BC will take a total of $2 billion per year out of our economy – or an average of $400 more from every man, woman and child. Reduced consumption results in reduced government tax revenues. Governments must then either cut spending, increase debt, or raise taxes. Under the HST, they will end up doing all three.

6. HST drives the economy underground:
In 2009, the Institute for Fiscal Studies produced a report that showed “leakage” from VAT evasion in the UK of between $20 billion -$30 billion per year. When the HST is evaded the government loses twice – the HST not charged, and the income not reported.

5. HST kills jobs and hurts the economy:
The provinces with the highest unemployment – Newfoundland 12.4%, Nova Scotia 9.5%, New Brunswick 9.1%, BC 8.2% and Ontario 8.1% – all have the HST. The three provinces with the lowest unemployment – Manitoba 5%, Saskatchewan 5.4% and Alberta 5.9% do not have HST. If the HST really stimulated growth – then corporate income taxes would increase to offset lost sales taxes so consumers would not have to pay more HST.

4. HST is unnecessarily complicated:
Under the HST, business accountants must track millions and millions of transactions and remittances, and file thousands of quarterly reports to government. But none of that is necessary. Simply exempting business from sales taxes would be a far simpler system than the cumbersome HST.

3. HST is revenue neutral to the BC government:
One of the biggest myths surrounding the HST is that it will help to pay for government services such as health care and education. But the HST is really a $2 billion tax transfer from the corporate sector to the consumer with no new revenues going to government.

2. HST is a loss of provincial sovereignty:
The HST gives control of BC’s sales tax authority to the Federal Government. It turns BC into the equivalent of a giant municipality, awaiting transfers of our own money back from Ottawa.

1. HST threatens democracy:
The BC Liberals want us to believe that repealing the HST will be too costly… and that’s probably true – for them. A defeat of the HST in the Referendum will change the way governments operate in BC forever. Never again will any government in BC be able to lie, obfuscate or deliberately cheat people out of their hard earned tax dollars.
 
Old Aug 29th 2011 | 5:34 am
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Default Re: B.C. votes to scrap HST

Where to start with that?

3 and 7 contradict each other completely. 4 is total b*ll*cks. How is filling in one return, which businesses have to do in any case to report GST, more complicated than introducing an additional tax with different rules, different tax returns and different compliance and enforcement procedures.

The real reason is contained in #1. Give the Liberals a bloody nose (and sod the consequences to the province and it's people).
 
Old Aug 29th 2011 | 7:17 am
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Default Re: B.C. votes to scrap HST

Originally Posted by CanadaJimmy
For me, the HST reminded me far too much of the EU, trying to centralize taxes and authority to one central body. Whats the point of even having a BC parliament if it can't manage it's own taxes? There are ways the tax could have been made business friendly without such a handover of power to the federal government.

Below, I have quoted FightHST's reasons to vote yes.
This just goes to show how little they understood it then. With the federal government responsible for collecting tax then sending a portion to the BC government saves money on govt. expenditure and leaves the provincial govt. to run provincial affairs.

For the life of me I cannot understand, that apart form the benefits of HST alone, why would be vote to return to 12% taxation when we could have had 10%?

To add to jonboyE s comments.


2. Provincial income tax and corporation tax is already collected federally by CRA then sent back to the province.


4. Compared to the PST system, HST was simplicity, it allowed business to file only one return, just instead of calling it GST, they called it HST. The days of filing PST returns and PST audits were gone, the days of figuing out which business expenses were PST exempt and those that were not were gone.

5. Not sure how they draw the conclusions that HST was responsible for the stats, were no other factors in play at the time, like the global economy. What happened in provinces without HST, did their jobless figures diminish?

6. All taxation drives an underground economy, if they thought that the old system of GST PST did not do the same then they had their head in the clouds. I would say the PST system is more likley to do this as the PST was an unrecoverable tax.

10. Not sure how the HST has this affect. It is based on what you spend, presumably low income people would spend less therefore pay less HST. Under the old system they would pay 12%, under HST they paid 12%.
 
Old Aug 29th 2011 | 7:37 am
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Default Re: B.C. votes to scrap HST

Originally Posted by The Aviator
For the life of me I cannot understand, that apart form the benefits of HST alone, why would be vote to return to 12% taxation when we could have had 10%?

If they had left the PST exempt things exempt from the full HST I think people would have been less upset, but when HST came in suddenly things that were only taxed at the 5% GST were now being taxed at 12% HST.

Where I work before HST came into effect our customers only paid the 5% GST, with HST its 12% and even at 10% its still more tax then the old system.
 
Old Aug 29th 2011 | 7:59 am
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Default Re: B.C. votes to scrap HST

Originally Posted by Jsmth321
If they had left the PST exempt things exempt from the full HST I think people would have been less upset, but when HST came in suddenly things that were only taxed at the 5% GST were now being taxed at 12% HST.

Where I work before HST came into effect our customers only paid the 5% GST, with HST its 12% and even at 10% its still more tax then the old system.
I think their you have it (from the ordinary member of the public perception)

As you say if previously exempt items had been left as is on the introduction of HST, I doubt if their would have been any more than a murmur. It was what was seen as the additional 7% 'tax grab' on previously exempt items that pissed off Joe public.

A lesson for politicians to take on board methinks.....

At least voters in BC got a choice....here it was little more than an imposition....Standard Ontario Liberal practice it has come to be....

Last edited by macadian; Aug 29th 2011 at 8:01 am.
 
Old Aug 29th 2011 | 11:00 am
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Default Re: B.C. votes to scrap HST

I thought paying tax was a good thing, doesn't it pay for services and welfare etc. I didn't appreciate how right wing BC voters are
 
Old Aug 29th 2011 | 11:08 am
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Default Re: B.C. votes to scrap HST

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
I thought paying tax was a good thing, doesn't it pay for services and welfare etc. I didn't appreciate how right wing BC voters are
No one likes being 'gouged'...and it would seem that is how the public perceived the introduction of the tax...attracting an additional 7% on previously exempt items. Hardly rocket science....which might explain why the Liberals never anticipated the back lash....
 
Old Aug 29th 2011 | 11:16 am
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Default Re: B.C. votes to scrap HST

Originally Posted by CanadaJimmy
For me, the HST reminded me far too much of the EU, trying to centralize taxes and authority to one central body. Whats the point of even having a BC parliament if it can't manage it's own taxes? There are ways the tax could have been made business friendly without such a handover of power to the federal government.

Below, I have quoted FightHST's reasons to vote yes.
While doing my own swot-up I came across this article which seemed to put another side to things in regards to the list you posted.

http://hstjobs.ca/wp-content/uploads...t_-May2011.pdf
 
Old Aug 29th 2011 | 12:04 pm
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Default Re: B.C. votes to scrap HST

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
I thought paying tax was a good thing, doesn't it pay for services and welfare etc. I didn't appreciate how right wing BC voters are
I don't like paying tax.

Originally Posted by macadian
No one likes being 'gouged'...and it would seem that is how the public perceived the introduction of the tax...attracting an additional 7% on previously exempt items. Hardly rocket science....which might explain why the Liberals never anticipated the back lash....
You know that the liberals are the right wing party in BC? They don't have anything to do with the federal liberal party.
 
Old Aug 29th 2011 | 12:17 pm
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Default Re: B.C. votes to scrap HST

Originally Posted by Alan2005
I don't like paying tax.
Neither do I, but I do appreciate having services and I am prepared to pay for them.
 
Old Aug 29th 2011 | 12:27 pm
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Default Re: B.C. votes to scrap HST

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
Neither do I, but I do appreciate having services and I am prepared to pay for them.
So we can support drug addicts and teenagers getting abortions. Get real pal, we pay far too much tax in Canada to pay for unnecessary welfare programs. This is country where wasteful bureaucracy masquerades as a caring social welfare state. It's shameful. Dogs gone.
 
Old Aug 29th 2011 | 12:28 pm
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Default Re: B.C. votes to scrap HST

Originally Posted by Oink
So we can support drug addicts and teenagers getting abortions. Get real pal, we pay far too much tax in Canada to pay for unnecessary welfare programs. This is country where wasteful bureaucracy masquerades as a caring social welfare state. It's shameful. Dogs gone.
Well, now when I buy a pizza that's 5% less going to teenage junkie abortions. Result!
 
Old Aug 29th 2011 | 12:33 pm
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Default Re: B.C. votes to scrap HST

Plus, you have a piss poor public sector workforce who has a deluded sense of self importance and entitlement. First the post office and now the teachers are planning 'industrial' action because they all want more money for doing a crap job at their jobs. Remember a few years ago when CUPE went on strike and they didn't cut the grass in the parks and you couldn't even play pitch and putt.
 
Old Aug 29th 2011 | 12:37 pm
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Default Re: B.C. votes to scrap HST

Originally Posted by Oink
So we can support drug addicts and teenagers getting abortions. Get real pal, we pay far too much tax in Canada to pay for unnecessary welfare programs. This is country where wasteful bureaucracy masquerades as a caring social welfare state. It's shameful. Dogs gone.
Now you are talking about specifics, I was talking in general terms. If not by taxation, how do you propose services are funded?
 


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