adiestubbs

Because youre a "celt" and im not, doesnt necessarily mean that i live further south than you.

Madmac

I live in Canada and your point is?

dbd33

Yesterday I saw gangs of drunken men in white T shirts with red crosses, one was waving a white flag with a red cross. This seemed a curious display and I don't remember any such thing in England. No one turned a hair as here, in Las Vegas, drunkenness and curious clothing is de rigueur. Still, it did make me wonder when St. George's flag, which I remember as symbolising the NF (and later the BNP) became an acceptable thing to wave if you didn't intend to bash a brown person or foreign football supporter with the flagstaff.

Has there been some sort of national false memory syndrome whereby the flag has become retrospectively significant?

printer

It's compulsory to wave it during the Euro football championships so people know we aren't Scottish or Welsh.

No offence meant to the Scots or Welsh BTW

Biiiiink

Are you sure about that? You're older than me but iirc, they marched under the union flag. I've never seen a St George's cross in any archive footage. I thought the St George's cross became the "thing to wave if you didn't intend to bash a brown person or foreign football supporter" for that reason.

ellsie

Devoltion. When the Scottish Parliament devolved the English national celebration seemed to start. Perhaps trying to find a national identity?

dbd33

You may be right about that. I'm not certain.

If so, I don't think that is the case any longer.

TBH I find the whole flag flying thing a bit dodgy. Fair enough if the flag is on the back of your boat or if you're at the World Cup but otherwise it smacks of jingoism.

dbd33

Ugh! What a ghastly idea, I've nothing in common with the people from outside the M25.

Biiiiink

Agreed, the BNP are actively associating themselves with it now. I just wanted to point out that it wasn't a part of NF/BNP marches way back when.

Don't give them the hits by clicking on this link, but this is what it says:

"Although a few tabloid newspapers have lately and cynically jumped on the bandwagon, it has been the BNP over the past four years that has been the driving force to promote the consciousness of the red and white in England... The St. George flag has featured prominently at all national and local events and the party has publicly supported the campaign to have St. George’s Day recognised as a national holiday in England."

Souvenir

Did the M25 exist when you left the UK?

rwin

A BIG part of it is "Not Being American."

dbd33

Bits of it. The truth is that I find it difficult to relate to people from outside the North Circular but I don't like to say that because it sounds a bit parochial. The M25 is a handy reference point even if it includes some areas I find a bit remote from civilisation.

betterskierthanthewife

I think the BNP are just trying to big themselves up and take credit where it isn't due. The sea-change in using the cross as a postivie symbol of national identity came about with hosting the Euro 96 football competition. Waving the flag became very popular at the actual matches and is sprung from there. Since then at other major tournaments it has also been the thing to do aided by freebies from companies wishing to associate themselves with hype.

I guess the reason that the cross has been used rather than the union flag is the increasing push for devolution from the rest of the UK and also that the hard core hooligan element with links to the far right that prominantly followed England in the late 80s and early 90s more closely linked themselves to the union flag.

Outside of the major football tournaments you still see very few flags on display, although probably a few more than in past years - certainly they are far far less numerous than in countries like the US.

moonraker

Outside of the major football tournaments you still see very few flags on display, although probably a few more than in past years - certainly they are far far less numerous than in countries like the US.[/QUOTE]



I guess it depends where you are in the UK. My neighbour in Derbyshire flies a huge St Georges flag every year, which stays up until it eventually becomes a rag. With no thought for the taste police he also puts up a horrible display of Xmas lights for about 3 weeks over the Christmas period, a grotesque parody of a practice inherited from the USA. Truly repulsive and wasteful of energy. (bah humbug):curse: