TALK THE TALK. ITALIAN LANGUAGE QUESTIONS.
Feb 3rd 2014, 12:06 pm
#826
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Re: TALK THE TALK. ITALIAN LANGUAGE QUESTIONS.
Feb 9th 2014, 8:16 am
#828
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Feb 11th 2014, 6:15 am
#830
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Re: TALK THE TALK. ITALIAN LANGUAGE QUESTIONS.
It's always mystified me too. Here's my personal explanation, which I haven't checked with an Italian
:
If you say, "C'è qualcuno?" it means "Is someone there?", which you might call out if you hear a sound in the middle of the night.
The negative would be "Non c'è nessuno?", which means "Isn't anyone there?", expressing suprise at finding the house empty.
So we need a compromise, leaving the negative word "nessuno" but removing "non".
Owzat? But I still find it illogical...
Another thing I find illogical is when the Italians say "Permesso?" on entering a house. It's one thing to say it if you find the door open and no one in sight (and you could use this as an alternative to "C'è nessuno?"), but I don't understand why they say it when you're standing right there and you've just invited them to come in!
:If you say, "C'è qualcuno?" it means "Is someone there?", which you might call out if you hear a sound in the middle of the night.
The negative would be "Non c'è nessuno?", which means "Isn't anyone there?", expressing suprise at finding the house empty.
So we need a compromise, leaving the negative word "nessuno" but removing "non".
Owzat? But I still find it illogical...
Another thing I find illogical is when the Italians say "Permesso?" on entering a house. It's one thing to say it if you find the door open and no one in sight (and you could use this as an alternative to "C'è nessuno?"), but I don't understand why they say it when you're standing right there and you've just invited them to come in!
Feb 11th 2014, 6:29 am
#831
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Re: TALK THE TALK. ITALIAN LANGUAGE QUESTIONS.
It's always mystified me too. Here's my personal explanation, which I haven't checked with an Italian:
If you say, "C'è qualcuno?" it means "Is someone there?", which you might call out if you hear a sound in the middle of the night.
The negative would be "Non c'è nessuno?", which means "Isn't anyone there?", expressing suprise at finding the house empty.
So we need a compromise, leaving the negative word "nessuno" but removing "non".
Owzat? But I still find it illogical...
It's hard to find a logic in many aspects of any language.
Your explanation is pretty sound for the expression "c'e' qualcuno" and "non c'e' nessuno" but I would tend to consider "c'e' nessuno" as the equal of "c'e' qualuno" when you think the likelihood of qualcuno being there, is lower.
i.e. if you are expecting someone to be there --> c'e' qualcuno
if you're not sure but you tend to belive it's less like for qualcuno tobe there --> c'e' nessuno?
The usage also vary with social situation, "c'e' qualcuno" being slightly more formal than "'c'e' nessuno?"
Another thing I find illogical is when the Italians say "Permesso?" on entering a house. It's one thing to say it if you find the door open and no one in sight (and you could use this as an alternative to "C'è nessuno?"), but I don't understand why they say it when you're standing right there and you've just invited them to come in!
:If you say, "C'è qualcuno?" it means "Is someone there?", which you might call out if you hear a sound in the middle of the night.
The negative would be "Non c'è nessuno?", which means "Isn't anyone there?", expressing suprise at finding the house empty.
So we need a compromise, leaving the negative word "nessuno" but removing "non".
Owzat? But I still find it illogical...
It's hard to find a logic in many aspects of any language.
Your explanation is pretty sound for the expression "c'e' qualcuno" and "non c'e' nessuno" but I would tend to consider "c'e' nessuno" as the equal of "c'e' qualuno" when you think the likelihood of qualcuno being there, is lower.
i.e. if you are expecting someone to be there --> c'e' qualcuno
if you're not sure but you tend to belive it's less like for qualcuno tobe there --> c'e' nessuno?
The usage also vary with social situation, "c'e' qualcuno" being slightly more formal than "'c'e' nessuno?"
Another thing I find illogical is when the Italians say "Permesso?" on entering a house. It's one thing to say it if you find the door open and no one in sight (and you could use this as an alternative to "C'è nessuno?"), but I don't understand why they say it when you're standing right there and you've just invited them to come in!
You ask "e' permesso?" when none is in sight, as to check whether you are really allowed to enter or not.
This applies also for a room, and not necessarily for a house or estabilishment (i.e. when you enter a room with the closed door).
Anyway it's worth to point out that no Italian would ever notice the difference if you mix them up in the spoken language...
Feb 11th 2014, 6:43 am
#832
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Re: TALK THE TALK. ITALIAN LANGUAGE QUESTIONS.
You say "permesso" only when someone is there and the expression comes from the use of declaring yourself permitted to enter a house (a reiteration of the facr you've been allowed to enter). Of course you can not to say it, it's just polite to do it.
You ask "e' permesso?" when none is in sight, as to check whether you are really allowed to enter or not.
This applies also for a room, and not necessarily for a house or estabilishment (i.e. when you enter a room with the closed door).
You ask "e' permesso?" when none is in sight, as to check whether you are really allowed to enter or not.
This applies also for a room, and not necessarily for a house or estabilishment (i.e. when you enter a room with the closed door).
Anyway, it's not true that the British are more polite than the Italians, as some Italians seem to imagine. I's just that certain expressions are obligatory in one language and and others in the other language. E.g. the Brits say "thank you" more often than the Italians, but for Italians the response "prego!" is obligatory, while it's not for the Brits.
Feb 11th 2014, 6:55 am
#833
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Re: TALK THE TALK. ITALIAN LANGUAGE QUESTIONS.
I would say Britons are more polite with people they are not familiar with.
OK, I come from Genova, which is well reknown for not being a friendly place, at all, but none would ever apologize for bumping you on the street.
Here in UK any busy corridor is a concert of "I'm sorry"
Feb 11th 2014, 7:03 am
#834
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Re: TALK THE TALK. ITALIAN LANGUAGE QUESTIONS.
Allow me to disagree
I would say Britons are more polite with people they are not familiar with.
OK, I come from Genova, which is well reknown for not being a friendly place, at all, but none would ever apologize for bumping you on the street.
Here in UK any busy corridor is a concert of "I'm sorry"
I would say Britons are more polite with people they are not familiar with.
OK, I come from Genova, which is well reknown for not being a friendly place, at all, but none would ever apologize for bumping you on the street.
Here in UK any busy corridor is a concert of "I'm sorry"
As I have an umbrella too 
Last edited by Garbatellamike; Feb 11th 2014 at 7:15 am.
Feb 11th 2014, 7:13 am
#835
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Re: TALK THE TALK. ITALIAN LANGUAGE QUESTIONS.
I agree about the "sorry" part (we're going off topic now!). There's also a general insensitiveness to the presence of others. If someone is looking at goods on display in a shop and you start looking too, they don't move to one side so that you can both look (but it's not universal because my Italian wife gets annoyed about it too).
Feb 26th 2014, 12:49 pm
#836
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Re: TALK THE TALK. ITALIAN LANGUAGE QUESTIONS.
Anyway back to language questions! How would you helpful people translate this phrase:
....ongoing shortfall in critical resource?
...current shortfall in critical resource?
As ever any help gratefully received.
perdurante criticità di risorse
...continuing criticality of resource?....ongoing shortfall in critical resource?
...current shortfall in critical resource?
As ever any help gratefully received.
Feb 26th 2014, 1:27 pm
#837
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Re: TALK THE TALK. ITALIAN LANGUAGE QUESTIONS.
Anyway back to language questions! How would you helpful people translate this phrase:
....ongoing shortfall in critical resource?
...current shortfall in critical resource?
As ever any help gratefully received.
perdurante criticità di risorse
...continuing criticality of resource?....ongoing shortfall in critical resource?
...current shortfall in critical resource?
As ever any help gratefully received.
Feb 26th 2014, 1:43 pm
#838
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Re: TALK THE TALK. ITALIAN LANGUAGE QUESTIONS.
Feb 26th 2014, 2:35 pm
#840
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Re: TALK THE TALK. ITALIAN LANGUAGE QUESTIONS.
Thanks Ugo I was leaning that way so another informed opinion is always helpful.
The context is improving partnership with a Japanese company but trying to politely tell them we have no real money to do anything new with them so we will need to better exploit existing synergies blah blah. The overpaid bloke in the plush office upstairs has done his speaking points in Italian for next week's meeting with his counterpart and I am now converting them into English for him (as that will be the language of the meeting).
The context is improving partnership with a Japanese company but trying to politely tell them we have no real money to do anything new with them so we will need to better exploit existing synergies blah blah. The overpaid bloke in the plush office upstairs has done his speaking points in Italian for next week's meeting with his counterpart and I am now converting them into English for him (as that will be the language of the meeting).