nonnon I think you should tell us where in Italy you are to warn others, where I am the people are much nicer and kinder than English people as far as I can tell, its true things like ENEL are a bad but in my three years everything seems to be improving, electric only off once this winter, broadband flying, census not too terrible , I forgot to save my form at the end and a woman came to my house to tell me and was very friendly , are you sure its Italy?

Well. I left as a temporary measure which is why I did not "tell the commune' - however the local police know. Are you sure you are in Italy? This is hell - I've been gone a year but still every month I have to get harassed by the police from afar. Yesterday it was a long email because of a small pile of rubble lying on a sheet of plastic in our yard. We wanted to restore our historical villa and have had to abandon things half way. The rubble (from renovations) was initially going to be removed by a local friend (who had a vehicle for it), however the charming stalkers intervened and threatened him if he were to help us. So, since then he stopped being a friend and only ever waves from the distance as he drives past. I can't believe any one still has a decent life in that country. For me it is like a police state. Not one month passes without a visit from the police - either the grass is too high, or I am not allowed to mow the lawn (at 3 in the afternoon in an agricultural area), or we are not allowed to park our cars in our own yard, or the garden plants do not look geometrical enough and need to be cut to shape etc etc. For me its over. I want to get out of there as soon as I can. (However that is not so easy).

I am sorry about the problems you are having. To me it seems that a person/persons( your stalkers) bear grudge against you and every time they see something they do not like or think they can get you on, they go to the nearest police station and do an esposto against you.Have you thought of hiring a lawyer and doing a contra denuncia against them for calunia, molestie, etc as I know you can do this.
One of my friends had an esposto against them by one of the neighbours complaining because they do compost in their garden, apparently it was dangerous for the health!They also said the garden was not kept neat, which is a complete lie, but in any case it is none of their business who does what in their garden, what length the grass is cut, if it does not endanger anyone.Unless you have a pile of asbestos lying in your garden, they can stuff it. Needless to say our friend did not bother to reply to this as he knows his rights and if they persist complaining, he is suing them.
You need a lawyer to sort them out. I know it can take years, but this is your only defence. And if you do complain about them, do not do it in the same police station as they are bound to be connected, especially if you live in a small rural area, go to Polizia dello Stato.

I'm not sure I even know a word in Italian for stalker.
In all my years here, I've never heard of anybody being stalked.

persecutore ? The press would probably go for ' stalker ' anyway like they do ' mobbing '. Perhaps the Carabinieri would be a better choice if he feels the local police are involved too ?

Thanks for your advice. What do you mean by "bound to be connected"?
There is a restraining order that has been put in place, at least against the man (it is a couple who are after me), which was made with help of the local police. It took "effect" one year ago - but is pretty much worthless. They have since destroyed part of my property and continue to escalate matters. I have had to get a lawyer because they have made about ten denuncie against us (my boyfriend is sometimes there) and believe it or not the stalker has started a court case against me based on lies - for which there is no evidence, because it never happened, yet I have to go to court and pay a lawyer already 1000 euros! It is like a murderer suing his victim. How can it be that a "legal system" allows this? He is stalking me - there is a long list of events, evidence and witnesses - yet nothing happens. He continues to send the police around to harass me. It is impossible to understand yet the key seems to be the following: he and his strega wife are trying to get 30,000 euros from me, saying that I hurt their honour! For something that has never happened - in fact it has been the opposite. I can never go into my garden without them hurling insults at me. Sorry to tell you such an awful story. An Italian friend of mine (no longer living in Italy) has told me that Italians do this to foreigners and that it is all about money. It seems they are trying to drive me nuts, out of my house and into financial ruin - I assume also, so that they can get my house. The lawyer says there is nothing you can do against crazy people like that but sell up. He says they never stop. They do have a reputation in the area for being nasty, never paying bills and the like - yet all the local authorities support them. Has any one else had any experience like this? Do you know for sure that you can do what you want in your garden? I am constantly under surveillance by the stalkers, who have 8 video cameras most of which are directed onto my house and even into the upstairs rooms. They block all my attempts to build a wall or even a fence. They have moved the existing fragile fence so as to steal a strip of my property....yet nothing seems to work. No one stops them. I'm afraid it is a hopeless situation. Fighting with a lawyer costs not just lots of money but also valuable time and life energy - which I do not have to spare. I would a t least like to minimize the damage it is creating on our lives.

The other point is, what is considered "dangerous" all depends on how hysterical the person is who is making the denunica.
They say grass higher than 4 cm is dangerous because it attracts snakes, trees are dangerous because they can fall, I am dangerous because I live. You see, in Italy, my Italian lawyer friend who no longer lives there tells me, you can sue any one for any thing. Theoretically, you can sue someone because he or she is wearing a white shirt she tells me. Now that is what I consider dangerous. It is no wonder that she left the country - her own mother was suing her about some such nonsense!

I don't know whereabouts you are in Italy but it sounds terrible. Nothing interesting like that happens on our street. There are just condomiums with friendly enough neighbours. Our condomium consists of 10 flats and we are all on first name informal terms. Plus through our direct neighbours we are also on friendly terms with the nearby neighbours. It appears they're all inbreds, married to cousins and in some cases the mother and the sister is the same person but I digress. So I'm guessing you are in the SOUTH? Which is like the wild wild west?

I'm sympathetic to your situation because our friends also have the neighbours from hell. One example; the neighbours built an illegal 2nd floor to their home and hurl abuse from it at our friends especially when she is on her own. However, my mother in the UK also has them.

One thing we learn't the hard way is, always get a lawyer to do a denuncia. And it is normal to receive a 'contro denuncia'. And why shouldn't your neighbours file one to defend themselves? Filing first doesn't mean you are right. It is up to the judge or mediator to decide that. Think about it; what if they had filed first?

If the vigile do their job properly, they should always come out when they receive a complaint. Did you show them the restraining order? And no, you can't mow the lawn for example at 3p.m on a Sunday (I'm not referring to you) if the by-laws bans it even if it is an agricultural area. As for the length of grass, who knows the reason -and there can be reasons. Did you ask?

And my last question brings me to another thing. Do you speak Italian. We've said time and time again, no Italian = trouble. You say that you are/were renovating an historical building. They are notoriously difficult and involve a lot of paper work .the same as in the UK- which is why an architect is a must IMO.

And lastly the census. Why do you think that you are exempt! Fill it on line. If I remember rightly the password is your CF.

My post might seem a little hard, but again, I'm am actually very sympathetic to your situation.

No, my census form has no password on it and the reply to my email from the istat was that they would not give me one. I assume in our area they consider everyone too stupid to be able to do it on line. However, I have since called someone named on the nasty letter who tells me that there is nothing to worry about, it has been taken care of - they said that I am an Italian. Which I am not - didn't seem to make any difference to him. I will however write a letter to the commune just in case he, like so many others, is lying.
Yes, we speak Italian. All your other points - have already been there and done that. And all the abuse always happens when I am alone - like your friend - not when my boy friend is there. Re the denuncia - it proceeds as follows: the carabiniar call one or both of us in to waste two hours at their station, infomring us that a denuncia has been made against us - however, we are not allowed to know about what and even if you decide to make a counter denuncia you are not allowed. Reason being: they do not invite us in until it is already too late to make a counter denuncia. One has to do it within three months. But it makes almost no difference, as they continue to only support the stalkers, my denunicas are usually thrown out and never brought to court. I know the vigili always come around when they call - the stalker neighbours, but never when I call eg.. after midnight or so. Getting a lawyer to write the denuncia costs 500 euros! Do you pay that every time? I believe it must be the only way. But I have no time to waste on any of this. I know you can get neighbours like that any where but Italy's legal system and corrupt authorities is the main and biggest problem. In a zona agricola you can legally make noise 24 hours a day as long as it is related to something agricultural - that is the law in this area. When the police came about the lawn mower they were unable to say what the hours are, say, in a residential area one may not make noise - but pleaded that the stalker had called so on that account please do not do it! What ever happened to the nice, easy going, flexible, humorous Italian? There are none for miles here.

Are you going to put the property up for sale?

Why don't you rent it out cheap to big noisy Albanians? See how your stalker neighbours like them instead.

Yes, or chinese or similar...It is impossible to understand otherwise what motivates them. apart from the fact that they are truly psychopaths and think they can get money. I will never pay a stalker for terrorizing me and destroying my property. But I do not trust Italian courts.

I make no noise, am inside working all day quietly in my studio when I am there and that is it. Our renovations are not major and do not require laborous paper work. The house is not under national trust. They do not recognize its historical value, it is modernism. I have the hope to make the house available for low cost to musicians, artists, scholars or writers in exchange for keeping up the garden and covering costs. There is loads of space and one can drive to a completely natural beach - with a national park as background in just ten minutes. Too risky renting to Albanians or any one else unless you are friends with them of course. Also, they'd have the police there constantly so it would still come back on me. I'd personally like to sell it to some decent terrorists who could let them know how the real world is.

No your census form doesn't have a password on it. It's your CF if I remember rightly. You need to insert that in the password box. Someone please confirm/correct me.

There is a fine line between what is consider agricultural and not. Mowing you lawn it could be argued (by your neighbours, I mean), isn't agricultural. You could have chosen to ignore the vigiles request. For the record, I would have stopped as well.

Our vigile don't come out at night -even if they say they will- we have to call the CC. As for the denuncia or I suspect, querela, you have 3 mnths from the time you become aware of being sued. So if you didn't receive the notice and only found out at the CC station, you had 3mnths from then. €500 IS a lot, but you would have known this if you had consulted a lawyer first. We fell into the same trap and will NEVER face the Italian legal system again without consulting a lawyer. And a fair chunk of that first fee are actually taxes for filing the querela. If I remember rightly, it was €70 a go after, though our's was a totally different problem.

I can only repeat that I am sympathetic to your situation, very, but it happens everywhere as my elderly mum found out when, for among other things, a neighbour called the police because my mum refused to let him put his stuff in my mum's top floor flat loft!!! He argued that the roof was communal. And her first lawyer did an appalling job, charging here €200 for just advice. What region is your house in?

Regarding your neighbour pointing cameras at your property, I found this:

● Quando possono essere installati sistemi di videosorveglianza?

Per i soggetti pubblici, quando siano necessari allo svolgimento di funzioni istituzionali; per i privati, quando siano necessari per adempiere ad obblighi di legge o per tutelare persone e beni da aggressioni, furti, rapine, atti di vandalismo. In ogni caso, prima di installare un sistema di videosorveglianza, occorre valutare se esso sia realmente necessario agli scopi perseguiti e non violi i diritti di altri, o se non siano, invece, sufficienti altre misure: ad esempio, i sistemi d’allarme o l’impiego di personale di vigilanza.

● …e negli spazi antistanti le porte delle abitazioni private?
È consentita l’installazione di telecamere da parte di singoli condomini, purché queste non invadano la sfera privata degli altri condomini. Non è consentita, quindi, la ripresa di aree comuni o antistanti altre abitazioni. http://www.garanteprivacy.it/

So. I think you have a good case to forse him to either remove them or point them out of your property. Last solution, pay someone with an air rifle.