ChicagoJer

Speaking from personal experience, I have found Andrew's advice to be honest and accurate 100% of the time.

JAJ

Out of interest, where does it specifically establish country specific quotas?

And if there are such country specific quotas in existence, wouldn't it be better for a CIC office to cease accepting further applications for the current fiscal year, once it has enough applicants to 'fill its quota', allowing for refusals?

The other question this leads to, is if someone is from India (for example) but is a naturalised US citizen then what country's 'quota' would they be allocated against - India or the US?


Hardly something for which the applicants can be blamed, though.


Jeremy

Andrew Miller

Parliament approves proposed by CIC annual targets every year. Targets are set for each class and allocated proportionally to population of all countries. No country gets any preferential allocations. Simple and fair.

Targets are set on the basis of needs of Canada and Canadian economy as well as on the basis what number of immigrants that economy can take in each year. Remember that immigrants start contributing to the economy on the long run, but it is the economy and our social programs that provide more benefits to new immigrants in early years than immigrants contribute. I can't find it right now, but I remember statistics published in late 1990's showing that each immigrant costs Canada's taxpayers about $50,000 in costs (schools, re-qualifications, etc.) and other benefits before immigrant's contribution starts balancing it. So, it is a matter of economy and money - thus resources for set annual influx of immigrants must be also secured. Application fees and RPRF only cover cost of applications processing and CIC cannot make any profit from those fees - the cost of assimilation of new immigrants, their health care, their and their kids education, etc. - all of that is carried by Canadian taxpayers for many years after immigrants move in.

Regardless what all those who complain think Canada has the largest among all developed countries immigration influx per capita of population. Within next 2 to 3 years we will reach number of immigrants moving here per year equal to 1% of Canada's population. Show me any other developed country that comes close to that ratio.

This is why formally they are called targets, not quotas. All human, monetary and technological resources are allocated sufficiently to meet annual targets and those targets are not only met but exceeded each year in past few years so far.

Stopping accepting applications once quotas are gone was from time to time considered but never worked out. Then IRPA came with floating pass mark to be used as management tool to keep number of qualifying applications in check with annual targets. And it worked until for reasons already discussed many times here CIC decided to lower pass mark. So, now they don't have the management tool as 67 points pass mark resulted in more qualifying applicants than it was under the old law blamed for backlogs. Unfortunately it happens over and over again when politicians start listening to lobbyists at the time those politicians need votes, especially in minority government.

75 points pass mark was the right one, lowering it before backlog was cleared and lowering it to such low level was clearly a disaster from the program management perspective.

But Jeremy - do you remember all those screaming for blood when pass mark was at 75 points level? Now the same people scream that processing times are getting longer. No matter what government will do there will always be those who won't like it.

Targets are set per country, not per nationality. So, if Indian national applies through Buffalo (because has been lawfully admitted to US or Canada for at least 12 months) then she or he is a subject to quotas set for Buffalo and all countries under it's jurisdiction.

GOBLIN

Hi n_chica,

Firstly i am not the person who made the 'regionalist' comment. if you go through my posts again there is no mention or hint of regionalism or discrimination anywhere.

Secondly, i am not comparing the H1b program to the Canadian one I am just giving an example. The h1- b topic would be another issue altogether

I could'nt agree more with the Canadians trying to maintain diversity.

And yes it I am speaking from someone elses perspective and applicants from Asia do have a lot to complain about. You probably would'nt understand until you would actually have to wait 4 years to be reunited with friends/ family or to begin a new life, especially when there is so much anxiety and uncertainty.
If you went through this I would complain on your behalf too!

Regards

GOBLIN

GOBLIN

Hello Scouse,

The fact is that there are some applicants who may be submitting forged documents, but these would not even amount to 5% of the total number of applicants from India. I'm sure its happening in other places as well and not just India.
It's the quota system as Andrew mentioned that causes the delays and not the CHC trying to detect forgeries.
Your belief is very different from what the facts are.

regards
GOBLIN

GOBLIN

Dear Andrew

It is understood that Canada has annual targets and quotas fo each country. It is also understood that the integration of new immigration into Canda may cost the tax payers more money than the immediate benefits from immigration. These immigrants are also future taxpayers.
The benefits from immigration are mutual. Canada is in need of immigration because of a low birth rate, ageing population, lack of skilled workers and need migrants to keep the economy alive and to keep the country going.
The migrants want to move to a place which is different from where they presently live and hope to improve their quality of life. Both benefit from each other.


[QUOTE=Andrew Miller]"Stopping accepting applications once quotas are gone was from time to time considered but never worked out. Then IRPA came with floating pass mark to be used as management tool to keep number of qualifying applications in check with annual targets. And it worked until for reasons already discussed many times here CIC decided to lower pass mark. So, now they don't have the management tool as 67 points pass mark resulted in more qualifying applicants than it was under the old law blamed for backlogs. Unfortunately it happens over and over again when politicians start listening to lobbyists at the time those politicians need votes, especially in minority government."

From your comments above it is clear that the *system* is responsible for the long processing times.
I do not think it is correct to blame the Indian and Chinese aplicants who want to move out of their countries for driving up the processing times.

If thousands of applicants are applying for PR to Canada it is because they are Educated, Skilled people who have also undergone language testing in foreign languages ( IELTS/ French Language tests). In addition they are paying high application and RPRF fees(1CAD$ = 35 IN Rupees), appointing Immigration Consultants and Lawyers like yourself and making every effort to prove to CIC that they will be an asset to Canada.
And these thousands of people are able to apply only because CHC's are accepting their applications, inspite of their enormous backlogs.
Understood that Canada has targets and wants to maintain diversity but is it fair to hold the hopeful applicants from India and China responsible for the long wait Andrew?

juliusmaximus

Interesting threat.
I really don't want to be accused of anything nor is it my intention to discriminate anybody but there are things to be said about those thousands of people wanting to get out of India and China. Almost all potential immigrants to Canada coming from there are doing it to get "a better life " ( i.e. financially better ). Both countries are in fact experiencing an economic boom with a growth rate in China of more than 9% and India with more than 6%. I'm sure not everybody has an equal share in this growth but if anybody would it is those educaded and skilled emigrants. India has a poverty line of about 25 % and China of 10%, it is not in that group that emigrants are to be found, those people can't even buy a plane ticket to go anywhere let alone pay all the fees .

Once again, I don't want to offend anybody, but I really would like to know why so many Indians and Chinese are wanting to get out. Is it purely economical ? is it the Canadian way of life that is so appealing ? it surely can't be the climate

GOBLIN

As is apparent from this thread quite a few people have issues with "thousands" of Indians and Chinese" applying for visas and I don't understand why?
Last time I looked Indians and Chinese communities in Canada and elsewhere comprised of successful, hardworking, educated and law abiding families.

JAJ

But from what you say these per-country 'targets' are administrative goals and not enshrined in legislation like the US quotas?

In that case, Australia's experience with skilled migrants appears to be much better. However, if one compares the rules, the Australian migrant cohort is generally:

- younger
- more likely to have skills in specific occupations in demand in Australia (nursing, trades, accounting, engineering) rather than general professional experience;
- and more likely to have skills and training in these occupations that's comparable to Australian standards (with only some bridging study required).

There are also schemes in Australia that waive the points test for skilled migrants who are sponsored by an employer. These (permanent) visas are also given priority and only take a few months in most cases.

Australia's not quite at 1%, but it's not far off at about 0.7%.


So what you're saying is that the program is not being well-managed?

The Australian program is constantly being 'tweaked' to deal with trends in demand and the needs of the Australian economy.

Jeremy

juliusmaximus

Sorry, but you missed my point.

mysaes_jgo

I believe every body is agree with laws as long they take advantage of them. You mention Australian process which take less time that the CIC process in most of the countries, but many people can not apply because they profession is not on the list.

The CIC process was similar in that way years ago, but when they changed the law in 2001 and reduce the pass mark, many people were able to apply. I am some of them, I apply from Colombia-Bogota, which is the country with the longest process on WESTERN HEMISPHERE, but I don’t care to way 2-3 years at least I have the changes to apply.

Andrew Miller

They are proposed by administration (CIC) but approved by Parliament. And because they are officially called "targets" they may be exceeded (and most of the time are) as long as it is done within approved budget.


Yes, it is exactly what I am saying. 75 points pass mark with a little tweaking every 6 months or so (as intended when implemented) was a very good management tool. 67 points pass mark eliminated that tool completely.

frankieforehead

Well the more the merrier, there are thousands of acres on offer so come on in.....I can't wait, as I love a good indian.

Scouse

Couldn't eat a whole one, though??!!

Scouse

Mmm. Perhaps so, perhaps not. Only time will tell.