Rejection Letter - We Are Gutted

Old Apr 10th 2005, 5:20 am
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Default Re: Rejection Letter - We Are Gutted

It is irrelevant how many years your husband spent in school - what is relevant is education level achieved (program completed and diploma or degree obtained) plus number of years required to get to that level.

You may study in university for 10 or so years and complete all classes, get all credits but if degree wasn't obtained then those years don't count at all.

Originally Posted by Craftybanshee
Thanks for posting Andrew. My husband does has post secondary qualifications, but the problem seems to be the length of time he was at school and his A level grades (he told me yesterday that he passed one at a low grade). This award has not been mentioned on our application. In the rejection letter the officer has awarded him points on him being at school for 11 years and doing O Levels only, when in fact he was at school for a total of 13 years and studied at A Level. As for me, after reading through the copy of our application I realise that CHC would only award me points if I had a Diploma and therefore I know my A levels don't count even though I studied as a mature student (darn frustrating though).
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Old Apr 10th 2005, 5:25 am
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Default Re: Rejection Letter - We Are Gutted

Originally Posted by Andrew Miller
It is irrelevant how many years your husband spent in school - what is relevant is education level achieved (program completed and diploma or degree obtained) plus number of years required to get to that level.

You may study in university for 10 or so years and complete all classes, get all credits but if degree wasn't obtained then those years don't count at all.

Yes, I understand what you're saying. We can prove the years my husband was at school + the A level he got a low grade (however, I wish he'd mentioned this before). I didn't know about this until yesterday. We were told otherwise by someone from CHC as I mentioned in a previous post and I'm annoyed that we were misinformed. Obviously if we'd known all this before then we would've sent in the necessary documentation at the start and avoided this stress now.
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Old Apr 10th 2005, 5:34 am
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Default Re: Rejection Letter - We Are Gutted

I am very sorry for you, and like others wish you all the best and don't give up.
The one thing we are worried about is how they work out education points when things are not as black and white as on forms. We realised that even though it says that they have to assess qualifications on that of the education system in the applicants home country, it appears that they may not at times, as I do believe UK is and was different to Canada signficantly over the years.
When I went to school most people left after O'levels, some went on to college or apprenticeships. A levels were for those that wanted academic jobs, that required University.

I recently applied to college in Canada (mature student) to upgrade my skills for canadian work force,they do not recognise that you have completed their equivalent of high school unless you have completed A levels.
I was accepted but needed to do an english and, maths exam equivalent to their high school levels, and what they said were our A levels, at my age! Anyway, they were actually equal to my O'levels. My daughter is studying stuff I did in early junior school.

When I was at school no one saw leaving school at 16 wrong, you were not a lesser person because you went to college or got a job. Society needs all workers from all backgrounds etc Up grading qualifications as an adult is a bonus. just because you did not go straight from school to college or uni, should not be a reason for punishment. Not every family could afford to send children to college or University at 16/18.

Out of interest .Did they tell you what your total score was in the end?
did you get full marks for all other catergories, so the education is the only one you needed full points for?
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Old Apr 10th 2005, 6:24 am
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Default Re: Rejection Letter - We Are Gutted

Originally Posted by gooding
I am very sorry for you, and like others wish you all the best and don't give up.
The one thing we are worried about is how they work out education points when things are not as black and white as on forms. We realised that even though it says that they have to assess qualifications on that of the education system in the applicants home country, it appears that they may not at times, as I do believe UK is and was different to Canada signficantly over the years.
When I went to school most people left after O'levels, some went on to college or apprenticeships. A levels were for those that wanted academic jobs, that required University.

I recently applied to college in Canada (mature student) to upgrade my skills for canadian work force,they do not recognise that you have completed their equivalent of high school unless you have completed A levels.
I was accepted but needed to do an english and, maths exam equivalent to their high school levels, and what they said were our A levels, at my age! Anyway, they were actually equal to my O'levels. My daughter is studying stuff I did in early junior school.

When I was at school no one saw leaving school at 16 wrong, you were not a lesser person because you went to college or got a job. Society needs all workers from all backgrounds etc Up grading qualifications as an adult is a bonus. just because you did not go straight from school to college or uni, should not be a reason for punishment. Not every family could afford to send children to college or University at 16/18.

Out of interest .Did they tell you what your total score was in the end?
did you get full marks for all other catergories, so the education is the only one you needed full points for?
Hi Gooding,

Our total score was 64 We feel we have a glimmer of hope here. My husband stayed on at school for 2 years in the 6th form and was all geared up to go to University and study Chemistry. During the first year he took and passed an extra O Level for more mature students in Mathematics. In the second year he took 3 A Levels, and failed two of them, but got the lowest pass possible on the third A Level. My husband is the principle applicant and he got maximum marks in the other categories i.e. age, work experience.

We feel we have a lot to offer Canada as a family and we're both prepared to study and gain Canadian qualifications once we get there. I wish I'd gone to Uni. but my family were of the attitude that I would get married and have kids so I guess they thought it would be a waste. We treat both our kids (boy & girl) equally and are encouraging both of them to go for further education. My husband has a lot of work experience but has always had to work twice as hard because he doesn't have a degree, which doesn't make him any less intelligent. He intends to study for a degree in Canada.
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Old Apr 10th 2005, 6:45 am
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Default Re: Rejection Letter - We Are Gutted

Exactly as Gooding stated earlier - A levels are just a completion of secondary education (high school) allowing graduate to enroll into university directly after high school, without going to college first. Your husband has only secondary education which counts for 5 points only. If he was awarded 15 points it means that your husband also had at least 1-year post secondary diploma, trade certificate or apprenticeship with at least 13 years of full time education. But from what you so far wrote he doesn't have any of such and officer was simply very generous trying to help you guys out by awarding 15 points despite lack of diploma for such score. There is nothing you can do now, short of either (1) your husband going back to school and/or trying to see if his work experience can be counted towards trade certificate or apprenticeship and getting such diploma; or (2) obtaining HRSDC approved (Arranged Employment opinion) job offer from Canada. Forget appeals - your husband's points may be even downgraded on detailed review of the case.

In any case new application will have to be filed once your husband gets (1) and/or (2) above.
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Old Apr 10th 2005, 7:09 am
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Default Re: Rejection Letter - We Are Gutted

Originally Posted by Andrew Miller
Exactly as Gooding stated earlier - A levels are just a completion of secondary education (high school) allowing graduate to enroll into university directly after high school, without going to college first. Your husband has only secondary education which counts for 5 points only. If he was awarded 15 points it means that your husband also had at least 1-year post secondary diploma, trade certificate or apprenticeship with at least 13 years of full time education. But from what you so far wrote he doesn't have any of such and officer was simply very generous trying to help you guys out by awarding 15 points despite lack of diploma for such score. There is nothing you can do now, short of either (1) your husband going back to school and/or trying to see if his work experience can be counted towards trade certificate or apprenticeship and getting such diploma; or (2) obtaining HRSDC approved (Arranged Employment opinion) job offer from Canada. Forget appeals - your husband's points may be even downgraded on detailed review of the case.

In any case new application will have to be filed once your husband gets (1) and/or (2) above.

I believe that Craftybanshee mentioned in her original post that her husband had taken a two year HND. Which is a diploma, and post secondary. I'm pressuming that he gained the diploma at the end of the course.
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Old Apr 10th 2005, 8:14 am
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Default Re: Rejection Letter - We Are Gutted

If he completed and got diploma then those 15 points are warranted, Craftybanshee also mentioned in another reply that husband doesn't have any completed post-secondary education. So, it remains unclear,

Regardless - 15 points is the maximum he could get, assuming that he has 2-years post secondary diploma.

And obviously circumstances, qualifications and other aspects of the case didn't warrant substitute evaluation (or evidence submitted wasn't good enough to make officer consider it) and refusal was justified. Sorry.

Originally Posted by Headhurts
I believe that Craftybanshee mentioned in her original post that her husband had taken a two year HND. Which is a diploma, and post secondary. I'm pressuming that he gained the diploma at the end of the course.
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Old Apr 10th 2005, 8:15 am
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Default Re: Rejection Letter - We Are Gutted

Originally Posted by Andrew Miller
Exactly as Gooding stated earlier - A levels are just a completion of secondary education (high school) allowing graduate to enroll into university directly after high school, without going to college first. Your husband has only secondary education which counts for 5 points only. If he was awarded 15 points it means that your husband also had at least 1-year post secondary diploma, trade certificate or apprenticeship with at least 13 years of full time education. But from what you so far wrote he doesn't have any of such and officer was simply very generous trying to help you guys out by awarding 15 points despite lack of diploma for such score. There is nothing you can do now, short of either (1) your husband going back to school and/or trying to see if his work experience can be counted towards trade certificate or apprenticeship and getting such diploma; or (2) obtaining HRSDC approved (Arranged Employment opinion) job offer from Canada. Forget appeals - your husband's points may be even downgraded on detailed review of the case.

In any case new application will have to be filed once your husband gets (1) and/or (2) above.

No - my husband does not just have secondary education! He did a 2 year HNC course which resulted in a Diploma. This is a post secondary qualification that he studied for a few years ago. Apologies if I wrote HND at the beginning of this thread, a typing error on my part.

Thank you for your advice but we still think we have a case and we're not giving up yet.
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Old Apr 10th 2005, 11:25 am
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Default Re: Rejection Letter - We Are Gutted

Originally Posted by Craftybanshee
No - my husband does not just have secondary education! He did a 2 year HNC course which resulted in a Diploma. This is a post secondary qualification that he studied for a few years ago. Apologies if I wrote HND at the beginning of this thread, a typing error on my part.

Thank you for your advice but we still think we have a case and we're not giving up yet.
I am no expert but from you giving us more information I think you have a good case here - I am blown away by this!! I can't understand it at all and the biggest problem you have is trying to get in contact with CHC! Get an Immigration Lawyer working on your case right away would be my advice.

Wishing you the very best of luck - keep us updated as I'm sure we all feel that this situation is highly unjust.
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Old Apr 10th 2005, 11:34 am
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Default Re: Rejection Letter - We Are Gutted

Why don't you gather all documents/supports etc.. and send an application for reconsideration first before appealing the decision?

Application for reconsideration is a lot faster than appealing and it works if the officer does make a mistake. Usually a lawyer can help you by sending it to a program manager, etc...

Originally Posted by Craftybanshee
Hi All,

I came on here a couple of weeks ago and mentioned a letter we'd got from CHC asking us for more info. regarding our education. We sent them some more documentation and a covering letter saying that we were waiting for more proof from schools/colleges regarding our credentials and would send them within the 90 days CHC had given us to do so.

Imagine our shock when on Friday we get a rejection letter from the immigration officer dealing with our case We are devastated to say the least, as are our children. We were/are still getting information together and didn't expect this to happen, which in our opinion is premature! We have posted them another letter which they should get tomorrow morning saying that we want to appeal against their decision and the reasons why. We feel that my husband should get 20 rather than 15 points for his education. We spoke to an officer at the first Sandown show we attended to get her to assess us to see if we would reach the 67 passmark for Skilled Workers. At the end of the assessment the officer scored us at 70 points. She said she would give my husband 20 points for his education, which included 2 years of a HND and his A levels, even though he had failed the A levels. My husband told me yesterday that he actually passed one of his A levels, but they gave him an O level grade. I have done A Levels as a mature student and she said she would award me 3 points for those. Yet, in our rejection letter I was given 0 points for them (it would appear I'd have to have a Diploma before I scored the minimum of 3 points) and my husband 15 points as she will only give him 11 years of education (up to 16 years). We are still committed to emigrating to Canada, and if our appeal is unsuccessful we will look at other options.

Can anyone offer advice please?
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Old Apr 10th 2005, 3:39 pm
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Default Re: Rejection Letter - We Are Gutted

sorry for bringing my stuff into this thread but my CAIPS last month also revealed that Consulate has been waiting for my Police Cert and Funds statement from last 9 months (i never received any letter from them). Hopefully they wont send rejection letter to me.
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Old Apr 10th 2005, 7:45 pm
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Default Re: Rejection Letter - We Are Gutted

Hi,
I'm so sorry to hear this, it must be devistating for you All that time of waiting only to be told this. Have you had your medicals yet?
I really hope you can resolve this or find another way of getting into Canada.
Good luck with everything.
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Old Apr 10th 2005, 8:12 pm
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Default Re: Rejection Letter - We Are Gutted

Originally Posted by Craftybanshee
Thank you for your advice but we still think we have a case and we're not giving up yet.

Best of luck Crafty - hang in there and stay positive. Jen
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Old Apr 10th 2005, 9:07 pm
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Default Re: Rejection Letter - We Are Gutted

Originally Posted by Craftybanshee
Yes, I understand what you're saying. We can prove the years my husband was at school + the A level he got a low grade (however, I wish he'd mentioned this before). I didn't know about this until yesterday. We were told otherwise by someone from CHC as I mentioned in a previous post and I'm annoyed that we were misinformed. Obviously if we'd known all this before then we would've sent in the necessary documentation at the start and avoided this stress now.
i know this my sound harsh, but if your husband is awarded an O in his A level it means that he failed his A level, but did attain the standard required to have obtained a grade c pass at O level so therefore will only count as an O level and nothing else.

why the HNC wasnt taken into account i dont know because this is a post secondary qualification.
Was it done part time or full time?
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Old Apr 10th 2005, 10:06 pm
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Default Re: Rejection Letter - We Are Gutted

Originally Posted by Craftybanshee
Hi All,

I came on here a couple of weeks ago and mentioned a letter we'd got from CHC asking us for more info. regarding our education. We sent them some more documentation and a covering letter saying that we were waiting for more proof from schools/colleges regarding our credentials and would send them within the 90 days CHC had given us to do so.

Imagine our shock when on Friday we get a rejection letter from the immigration officer dealing with our case We are devastated to say the least, as are our children. We were/are still getting information together and didn't expect this to happen, which in our opinion is premature! We have posted them another letter which they should get tomorrow morning saying that we want to appeal against their decision and the reasons why. We feel that my husband should get 20 rather than 15 points for his education. We spoke to an officer at the first Sandown show we attended to get her to assess us to see if we would reach the 67 passmark for Skilled Workers. At the end of the assessment the officer scored us at 70 points. She said she would give my husband 20 points for his education, which included 2 years of a HND and his A levels, even though he had failed the A levels. My husband told me yesterday that he actually passed one of his A levels, but they gave him an O level grade. I have done A Levels as a mature student and she said she would award me 3 points for those. Yet, in our rejection letter I was given 0 points for them (it would appear I'd have to have a Diploma before I scored the minimum of 3 points) and my husband 15 points as she will only give him 11 years of education (up to 16 years). We are still committed to emigrating to Canada, and if our appeal is unsuccessful we will look at other options.

Can anyone offer advice please?
Hi Craftybanshee

Just reading through your case and my gut feeling is I may be in the same boat as you.
I have also been asked for some more information on my qualifications in which I sent in a couple of weeks ago, and now my e-client has changed to Decision made even with out us having any medicals done so I get the feeling we may also may have not reached the pass mark, especially as your husband seems to have better qualifications than myself.
I'm currently waiting by the letter box in anticipation
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