Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC
Aug 17th 2009, 7:50 pm
#31
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Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC
As has already been suggested there is more to this than so far described by the initial poster. Mischief of this type is a dual offense that can be prosecuted either as a summary or indictable offense. The maximum penalty would be a 5 year jail sentence so permanent inelligibility to enter Canada would not apply but approval of rehabilitation would be needed. This would not be possible prior to 5 years having passed since the end of the sentence including any period of probation.
Aug 18th 2009, 8:40 am
#32
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Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC
As has already been suggested there is more to this than so far described by the initial poster. Mischief of this type is a dual offense that can be prosecuted either as a summary or indictable offense. The maximum penalty would be a 5 year jail sentence so permanent inelligibility to enter Canada would not apply but approval of rehabilitation would be needed. This would not be possible prior to 5 years having passed since the end of the sentence including any period of probation.
There is not more to this than ive described - I have been honest about my conviction on the post and honest about the verdict.
Im a little bit confused as to why you or anyone who has been kind enough to respond to this thread would assume i'd waste my stime starting it if i wasnt giving readers the full picture on which to base your comments and opinions. What do u think im not admitting to?
I was convicted in March 2007 of "Damage to prpoerty of a value unknown", an offencepunsihable with 10yr max in Can. Thats the FULL picture.
Who did you work for as i former Visa officer - id be interested to communicate the full contents of the CIC refusal letter when i digitise it later today and getting your opinion then.
Cheers
Aug 18th 2009, 8:47 am
#33
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Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC
Im pissed off cos they had this info from day 1, so why not reject me earlier insted of making me pay for a medical (£245) and then an affadavit.
Aug 18th 2009, 11:57 am
#34
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Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC
Hi scientist - Yup, i was completely open about the conviction all the way through the process - the first part of the application required an ACPO Criminal Records check and that detailed the conviction. The CIC then wrote back asking me for more info about the nature of the incident, which i repsonded to via a sworn affadavit, acquired at my expense, and signed my solicitor.
Im pissed off cos they had this info from day 1, so why not reject me earlier insted of making me pay for a medical (£245) and then an affadavit.
Im pissed off cos they had this info from day 1, so why not reject me earlier insted of making me pay for a medical (£245) and then an affadavit.
Perhaps that has something to do with it, have you been to Canada as a tourist since your conviction? If so, then you entered illegally and that may be why you've been banned for life now, they've found out about your other visits when you shouldn't have been there?
Just a guess though, and it's the only thing I can think of as your situation seems very odd. When you get the written response, do post it here (obviously take any personal info out) and hopefully one of our regular experts such as Jim will be able to help you understand.
Good luck.
Last edited by christmasoompa; Aug 18th 2009 at 12:01 pm.
Aug 18th 2009, 1:46 pm
#36
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Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC
You state in an earlier post that "Irony is if i hadnt applied for anything to the CIC, i'd be able to come and go as I please on a standard tourist visa", but in fact that's not the case as without criminal rehab you are inadmissible for any reason, even a holiday. And if you were convicted in 2007, you cannot apply for criminal rehab until 2012, so would be inadmissible until then at the earliest.
Perhaps that has something to do with it, have you been to Canada as a tourist since your conviction? If so, then you entered illegally and that may be why you've been banned for life now, they've found out about your other visits when you shouldn't have been there?
Just a guess though, and it's the only thing I can think of as your situation seems very odd. When you get the written response, do post it here (obviously take any personal info out) and hopefully one of our regular experts such as Jim will be able to help you understand.
Good luck.
Perhaps that has something to do with it, have you been to Canada as a tourist since your conviction? If so, then you entered illegally and that may be why you've been banned for life now, they've found out about your other visits when you shouldn't have been there?
Just a guess though, and it's the only thing I can think of as your situation seems very odd. When you get the written response, do post it here (obviously take any personal info out) and hopefully one of our regular experts such as Jim will be able to help you understand.
Good luck.
For those of you who are interested, and hopefully Jim might be, here is the body text of the rejection:
After careful and thorough consideration of all aspects of your application and the supporting information provided, I have determined that you do not meet the requirements for immigration because you are described in paragraph 36(2)(b) of the immigration and Refugee protection Act. You are therefore criminally inadmissible to Canada.
You have been convicted on 27th March 2007 at Isleworth Crown Court of an offence, namely Destroy or Damage Property at a value unknown. If committed in Canada this offence would be punishable under article 430, Mischief, of the criminal code of Canada and would be punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of up to 10 years.
Subsection 11(1) of the Act states that the visa or document shall be issued if, following an examination, the office is satisfied that the foreign national is not inadmissible and meets the requirements of this Act. I am satisfied that you are inadmissible for the reasons set out above. I am therefore refusing your application pursuant to subsection 11(1) of the act.
This inadmissibility also extends to any stay in Canada as a visitor. You should therefore not attempt to enter Canada.
You have been convicted on 27th March 2007 at Isleworth Crown Court of an offence, namely Destroy or Damage Property at a value unknown. If committed in Canada this offence would be punishable under article 430, Mischief, of the criminal code of Canada and would be punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of up to 10 years.
Subsection 11(1) of the Act states that the visa or document shall be issued if, following an examination, the office is satisfied that the foreign national is not inadmissible and meets the requirements of this Act. I am satisfied that you are inadmissible for the reasons set out above. I am therefore refusing your application pursuant to subsection 11(1) of the act.
This inadmissibility also extends to any stay in Canada as a visitor. You should therefore not attempt to enter Canada.
Does this mean i will be able to enter Canada when the conviction is spent - or do i still have to apply for rehab in 2012? I was hoping they would show some compassion as the incident took place in 2005 and my trial was originally heard in October 2005 but postponed - because the judge was on holiday - so really they could have been a bit nicer and taken the spent period from that date?
Utter **** the whole thing.
Last edited by christmasoompa; Aug 18th 2009 at 2:41 pm. Reason: Profanity removed
Aug 18th 2009, 2:34 pm
#37
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Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC
I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.
I can't find the part of the Canada Criminal Code relating to the maximum sentences so I can't check that.
However, it would appear that the Immigration Officer is correct about the equivalence of the two offences.
If I remember correctly then your sentence was a fine. Based on the CIC faq quoted below I would say you can apply for rehabilitation 5 years after the date you paid that fine (or otherwise completed your sentence). This means 2012.
I'm sorry for you - this must be quite disappointing.
Relevant law:
Canada Criminal Code Article 430
UK Criminal Damage Act 1971
From CIC's faq on inadmissability
I can't find the part of the Canada Criminal Code relating to the maximum sentences so I can't check that.
However, it would appear that the Immigration Officer is correct about the equivalence of the two offences.
If I remember correctly then your sentence was a fine. Based on the CIC faq quoted below I would say you can apply for rehabilitation 5 years after the date you paid that fine (or otherwise completed your sentence). This means 2012.
I'm sorry for you - this must be quite disappointing.
Relevant law:
Canada Criminal Code Article 430
Mischief
430. (1) Every one commits mischief who wilfully
(a) destroys or damages property;
(b) renders property dangerous, useless, inoperative or ineffective;
(c) obstructs, interrupts or interferes with the lawful use, enjoyment or operation of property; or
(d) obstructs, interrupts or interferes with any person in the lawful use, enjoyment or operation of property.
430. (1) Every one commits mischief who wilfully
(a) destroys or damages property;
(b) renders property dangerous, useless, inoperative or ineffective;
(c) obstructs, interrupts or interferes with the lawful use, enjoyment or operation of property; or
(d) obstructs, interrupts or interferes with any person in the lawful use, enjoyment or operation of property.
1.
Destroying or damaging property.
— (1) A person who without lawful excuse destroys or damages any property belonging to another intending to destroy or damage any such property or being reckless as to whether any such property would be destroyed or damaged shall be guilty of an offence.
(2) A person who without lawful excuse destroys or damages any property, whether belonging to himself or another—
(a)
intending to destroy or damage any property or being reckless as to whether any property would be destroyed or damaged; and
(b)
intending by the destruction or damage to endanger the life of another or being reckless as to whether the life of another would be thereby endangered;
shall be guilty of an offence.
(3) An offence committed under this section by destroying or damaging property by fire shall be charged as arson.
Destroying or damaging property.
— (1) A person who without lawful excuse destroys or damages any property belonging to another intending to destroy or damage any such property or being reckless as to whether any such property would be destroyed or damaged shall be guilty of an offence.
(2) A person who without lawful excuse destroys or damages any property, whether belonging to himself or another—
(a)
intending to destroy or damage any property or being reckless as to whether any property would be destroyed or damaged; and
(b)
intending by the destruction or damage to endanger the life of another or being reckless as to whether the life of another would be thereby endangered;
shall be guilty of an offence.
(3) An offence committed under this section by destroying or damaging property by fire shall be charged as arson.
When am I eligible to apply for rehabilitation?
You are eligible to apply for rehabilitation if:
* you have committed a criminal act outside of Canada (for which you were not charged) and five years have passed since the act; or
* you have been convicted outside of Canada and five years have passed since the end of the sentence imposed.
You are eligible to apply for rehabilitation if:
* you have committed a criminal act outside of Canada (for which you were not charged) and five years have passed since the act; or
* you have been convicted outside of Canada and five years have passed since the end of the sentence imposed.
Last edited by ESarge; Aug 18th 2009 at 2:35 pm. Reason: Getting the quote tags right.
Aug 18th 2009, 2:41 pm
#38
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Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC
Hi - I havent been to Canada or attempted to enter since before the date of the offence (back in 2005) or the date of conviction, March 2007.
For those of you who are interested, and hopefully Jim might be, here is the body text of the rejection:
Does this mean i will be able to enter Canada when the conviction is spent - or do i still have to apply for rehab in 2012? I was hoping they would show some compassion as the incident took place in 2005 and my trial was originally heard in October 2005 but postponed - because the judge was on holiday - so really they could have been a bit nicer and taken the spent period from that date?
Utter ***** the whole thing.
For those of you who are interested, and hopefully Jim might be, here is the body text of the rejection:
After careful and thorough consideration of all aspects of your application and the supporting information provided, I have determined that you do not meet the requirements for immigration because you are described in paragraph 36(2)(b) of the immigration and Refugee protection Act. You are therefore criminally inadmissible to Canada.
You have been convicted on 27th March 2007 at Isleworth Crown Court of an offence, namely Destroy or Damage Property at a value unknown. If committed in Canada this offence would be punishable under article 430, Mischief, of the criminal code of Canada and would be punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of up to 10 years.
Subsection 11(1) of the Act states that the visa or document shall be issued if, following an examination, the office is satisfied that the foreign national is not inadmissible and meets the requirements of this Act. I am satisfied that you are inadmissible for the reasons set out above. I am therefore refusing your application pursuant to subsection 11(1) of the act.
This inadmissibility also extends to any stay in Canada as a visitor. You should therefore not attempt to enter Canada.
You have been convicted on 27th March 2007 at Isleworth Crown Court of an offence, namely Destroy or Damage Property at a value unknown. If committed in Canada this offence would be punishable under article 430, Mischief, of the criminal code of Canada and would be punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of up to 10 years.
Subsection 11(1) of the Act states that the visa or document shall be issued if, following an examination, the office is satisfied that the foreign national is not inadmissible and meets the requirements of this Act. I am satisfied that you are inadmissible for the reasons set out above. I am therefore refusing your application pursuant to subsection 11(1) of the act.
This inadmissibility also extends to any stay in Canada as a visitor. You should therefore not attempt to enter Canada.
Does this mean i will be able to enter Canada when the conviction is spent - or do i still have to apply for rehab in 2012? I was hoping they would show some compassion as the incident took place in 2005 and my trial was originally heard in October 2005 but postponed - because the judge was on holiday - so really they could have been a bit nicer and taken the spent period from that date?
Utter ***** the whole thing.
But where does it say in that that you've been 'banned for life'? To me, it only says that you are criminally inadmissible to Canada until you have applied for criminal rehab, which was surely to be expected! How did you get banned for life from that?
Anyway, you can't apply for rehab until at least 5 years from the date of the end of sentence (not the date of conviction, worth noting), so you've got until at least 2012 before you can apply. So she'll have to come and visit you in the UK in the interim. I'm afraid that 'nice' doesn't come in to immigration - it's hardly their fault that the judge was on holiday either, and they have to apply the same laws to everybody regardless of circumstances.
Also, I'm confused how you were applying for spousal sponsorship if you've not been in Canada for a few years. Are you married to the Canadian?
Aug 18th 2009, 2:42 pm
#39
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Posts: 549
Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC
See code:
(2) Every one who commits mischief that causes actual danger to life is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for life.
Destroying a will, or valuable stuff.
(3) Every one who commits mischief in relation to property that is a testamentary instrument or the value of which exceeds five thousand dollars
(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years; or
(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.
Idem
(4) Every one who commits mischief in relation to property, other than property described in subsection (3),
(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or
Unless you were throwing rocks at the neighbours head through the window, or the windows were made of gold, i think the maximum term should be 2 years.
It seems that since the value was "unknown", it is assumed greater than $5000 and hence the ten years.
(2) Every one who commits mischief that causes actual danger to life is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for life.
Destroying a will, or valuable stuff.
(3) Every one who commits mischief in relation to property that is a testamentary instrument or the value of which exceeds five thousand dollars
(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years; or
(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.
Idem
(4) Every one who commits mischief in relation to property, other than property described in subsection (3),
(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or
Unless you were throwing rocks at the neighbours head through the window, or the windows were made of gold, i think the maximum term should be 2 years.
It seems that since the value was "unknown", it is assumed greater than $5000 and hence the ten years.
Last edited by andrewrb143; Aug 18th 2009 at 2:48 pm.
Aug 18th 2009, 2:42 pm
#40
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Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC
Seems you've got carried away in your interpretation, as I don't see anywhere it says you are "banned for life". My earlier post covers your options. Whilst I'm not an expert - in relation to those options, this letter possibly appears to indicate they are saying you shouldn't bother applying for a temporary resident's permit.
According to their definition of your crime, you will have to wait five years from completion of your sentence to apply for rehabilitation and will never be automatically "deemed rehabilitated".
As stated above, the fact the "value was unknown" seems to have seen your equivalent charge matched against the higher maximum sentence. Nevertheless, you'd still have to wait five years to apply for rehabilitation.
According to their definition of your crime, you will have to wait five years from completion of your sentence to apply for rehabilitation and will never be automatically "deemed rehabilitated".
As stated above, the fact the "value was unknown" seems to have seen your equivalent charge matched against the higher maximum sentence. Nevertheless, you'd still have to wait five years to apply for rehabilitation.
Last edited by Shredder; Aug 18th 2009 at 2:53 pm.
Aug 18th 2009, 3:00 pm
#41
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Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC
So 2012 it is.
What i'm curious about (and no doubt many others) is why you attacked your neighbours property in the first place
What i'm curious about (and no doubt many others) is why you attacked your neighbours property in the first place
Aug 18th 2009, 3:45 pm
#42
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Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC
See code:
(2) Every one who commits mischief that causes actual danger to life is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for life.
Destroying a will, or valuable stuff.
(3) Every one who commits mischief in relation to property that is a testamentary instrument or the value of which exceeds five thousand dollars
(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years; or
(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.
Idem
(4) Every one who commits mischief in relation to property, other than property described in subsection (3),
(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or
Unless you were throwing rocks at the neighbours head through the window, or the windows were made of gold, i think the maximum term should be 2 years.
It seems that since the value was "unknown", it is assumed greater than $5000 and hence the ten years.
(2) Every one who commits mischief that causes actual danger to life is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for life.
Destroying a will, or valuable stuff.
(3) Every one who commits mischief in relation to property that is a testamentary instrument or the value of which exceeds five thousand dollars
(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years; or
(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.
Idem
(4) Every one who commits mischief in relation to property, other than property described in subsection (3),
(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or
Unless you were throwing rocks at the neighbours head through the window, or the windows were made of gold, i think the maximum term should be 2 years.
It seems that since the value was "unknown", it is assumed greater than $5000 and hence the ten years.
Just makes me think that they didnt pay the slightest bit of attention to my response to their request for info about the incident.
Aug 18th 2009, 3:49 pm
#43
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Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC
Also, I'm confused how you were applying for spousal sponsorship if you've not been in Canada for a few years. Are you married to the Canadian?[/QUOTE]
"This inadmissibility also extends to any stay in Canada as a visitor. You should therefore not attempt to enter Canada."
Doesnt actually say "for life" but doesnt give me any indication that i can come in as a tourist.
My GF and all her famil have Canadian Passports and she is going back as a returning resident - we have been together 6 years - living together for nearly 5 and are therefore common law as i undersatnd it.
"This inadmissibility also extends to any stay in Canada as a visitor. You should therefore not attempt to enter Canada."
Doesnt actually say "for life" but doesnt give me any indication that i can come in as a tourist.
My GF and all her famil have Canadian Passports and she is going back as a returning resident - we have been together 6 years - living together for nearly 5 and are therefore common law as i undersatnd it.
Aug 18th 2009, 4:17 pm
#44
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Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC
"This inadmissibility also extends to any stay in Canada as a visitor. You should therefore not attempt to enter Canada."
Doesnt actually say "for life" but doesnt give me any indication that i can come in as a tourist.
My GF and all her famil have Canadian Passports and she is going back as a returning resident - we have been together 6 years - living together for nearly 5 and are therefore common law as i undersatnd it.
Doesnt actually say "for life" but doesnt give me any indication that i can come in as a tourist.
My GF and all her famil have Canadian Passports and she is going back as a returning resident - we have been together 6 years - living together for nearly 5 and are therefore common law as i undersatnd it.
Your comments about them having not read the info regarding the incident are irrelevant - no matter how minor the crime, anybody with any criminal conviction is inadmissible to Canada. Doesn't matter if you were done for the most minor crime imaginable, it would still mean you'd be ineligible to enter Canada. So assume they did read them, but it wouldn't have made any difference anyway.
Read the section about criminal rehab on the CIC website and you will understand it a bit better. Were you not aware that you were inadmissible before applying?
And I understand the spousal sponsorship thing now, thanks. Your problem now of course is that she will not be able to return to Canada if she wants to sponsor you - if she goes back until you are eligible to apply for criminal rehab (which can take up to a year btw, so just factor that in) then you will no longer be common-law partners. Is she ok to stay in the UK until 2012/13?
Aug 18th 2009, 5:09 pm
#45
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Re: Rejected and Banned for Life from Canada by the CIC
Hi All,
Getting a little worried as I was in a similar situation back in November 2000 - I damaged a window while drunk and very stupid!! I was fined approx £120 and attended a magistrate's court.
I have declared this on my form with a covering letter.
Will this stop my application for PR considering how long ago this happened?
Getting a little worried as I was in a similar situation back in November 2000 - I damaged a window while drunk and very stupid!! I was fined approx £120 and attended a magistrate's court.
I have declared this on my form with a covering letter.
Will this stop my application for PR considering how long ago this happened?