Zoya82

Hi all, I've been reading posts on this thread for a few days and having seen that the new IELTS condition has upset some potential immigrants who think their language skills don’t need to be tested because it’s their mother tongue, I thought I would contribute something from my own experience while my application for PR was in process. I was born abroad but have been living in the UK for about 7 years. I am now a landed immigrant in Canada but because I'm not a native English speaker (never mind my degrees and blah blah blah in English), I was required to sit IELTS to be able to claim full points for language. The day I took my test, which was last year; I met a girl who was attempting to immigrate to Australia. She was an IT teacher at a secondary school but she didn’t have sufficient experience to score the minimum required points so claiming points for English was her last option to qualify (she was giving the test for the 2nd time because she didn’t hit enough points in 1st attempt). She was quite an interesting girl and we had a good chat. We exchanged email addresses to keep in touch and when the results came out, I wrote to her to ask how she had done and guess what, she scored even lower on the bands than the previous time! I was so surprised! I definitely think that being British born and bred doesn’t necessarily mean you have the language capabilities to pass IELTS and fulfil the English language requirements that CIC feel are important for their professional workforce. That’s their call and if you want to go to that country- take it or leave it; your choice!

Secondly, I don’t agree with the poster who said they read some literature about IELTS and they think its designed in a way that tests your English as a 2nd language. That’s simply not the case. Those who have taken the test will know that it has been designed in a way to judge everyone’s (native and non-native) abilities fairly and equally. It certainly doesn’t give anyone an advantage but theres nothing to whinge about it.

I think to have a single test for English will be easier and quicker in the long run - one yard stick to judge everyone, no confusion, no problems, rather than officials having to consider statements to make value judgements (which can of course be written by someone else; but that’s another debate altogether)

And above all, the new requirement is an amendment applied by CIC for whatever reasons, but say if they did it to control the volume of applications submitted every year then I don’t blame them. Doesn’t every country have the right to decide how many foreigners can come to live and work there? Of course they do. And that’s what Theresa May is doing in this country at the moment. Canada is not being much different than that; it’s just that their approach that’s different!

crazy72

Really?

Have you been to China and spent there few years, living among Chinese who had kids in primary or secondary schools? I didn't think so.

But I have been living in China for almost 4 years not too long ago, have Chinese common-law partner and Chinese step-daughter who until grade 3 was studying in China. Relatives of my partner, many of our friends have children in school age - so yes, I have learned first hand how it works in China.

Now I am visiting China among few other places, met with old friends and can assure you that nothing changed with education system in China. It is still entirely focused on tests preparations.

Even teachers in China don't try to claim anything else in media - here for example is a news report from Shenzhen Daily (June 23 2010 edition) about authorities punishing teachers for illegal tutoring, in which interviewed middle school teacher states as follows:

He said the exam-oriented education system was the reason private tuition was popular and that some teachers tutored students for free.

The above quote is from here for your verification:

http://szdaily.sznews.com/html/2010-...nt_1123818.htm

You still want to call me silly? Who is uninformed here?

Several years ago I had to take IELTS myself (for reasons unrelated to Canada or to immigration to any English speaking country) - I bought the preparation materials from British Council and spent about 3 or so months preparing myself and taking tons of online mock tests. I passed the formal test with overall score of 8.0, with no score lower than 7.5.

As you can judge from my posts my written English is far from high proficiency, my speaking skills due to heavy accent and poor grammar are not any better than my writings. But I scored high on IELTS, preparing for the test, not improving my English. If old chap like myself can do it then I don't see why much younger than me Chinese who during their entire education mastered their exam preparation skills cannot ace on IELTS.

Jim Humphries

I have spent years in Taiwan and Hong Kong and have visited China numerous times. My wife is Chinese as well. I feel quite qualified to say that the IELTS does not fit well with a rote learning environment such as is favored in China, Japan or Korea.

crazy72

This "rote learning environment" is what gives Chinese the advantage when preparing for any exam - they can prepare well and ace on IELTS.

On the other hand, many native English speakers don't feel any need to prepare themselves for the IELTS and their results are often a shock to them because of that.

crazy72

Some more evidence of exam oriented education system in China for those who may not understand what the argument was all about.

http://tinyurl.com/26bzu36 - page 3, end of second paragraph:

This situation is very evident in China today, which is marching toward modernization. Exam is not only justified as the important mean of realizing equality, democracy and social justice, but also turns out to be the aim of education.


Another paper titled Historical and Contemporary Exam-driven Education Fever in China:

http://tinyurl.com/2bp7nw8


Then In China and Singapore: the test-oriented education trap:

http://educononline.com/2009/10/02/c...ducation-trap/

Test-oriented education’ refers to the factual existence in our nation’s education of the tendency to simply prepare for tests, aim for high test scores, and blindly pursuing admission rates [to colleges or higher-level schools] while ignoring the the real needs of the student and social development.


from another publication:

http://www.ucalgary.ca/iejll/vol10/jian

Zhang (2004) stated that the solid tradition of exam-oriented education of acceptant learning had affected courses, teaching methods, teacher-student relationships, and the system of evaluation and selection.

Jim Humphries

I maintain that no one who passes the IELTS at the CIC-required level for full points could possibly be incompetent at writing and speaking the language. Apparently you feel otherwise.

CanadaJimmy

This really does not reassure me about the test.

I have been enjoying the IELTS example CD, here's an example of the kind of thing they do to try and trip people up: "What time would you like your wake up call? "Errrr... around 7....actually make that half past."

Mr and Mrs B.

Reading this has made me want to cry. Seriously. We sent our application to Sydney on 23/6 and it will have missed the 26/6 deadline... I am gutted. Mr B was born to British parents, has been in the english schoolsystem all his life, all his qualifications have been from british schools and now it seems we still have to fork out $285 (thank you HST!!!) for a test to establish what we already know.

I have just checked the test dates and the earliest he could do it (at the moment) seems to be 24 August and 11 september after that...the delay in our application is going to be enormous. I'm just going away and sob for a while. I can't believe they have done this without announcing it or at least implementing a 'grace period' for applications that were postmarked *before* 26 June.

CanadaJimmy

I felt just as sad at first (I also posted my app on the 23rd), but have a look around online at all the test centres you can find. SFU in Vancouver was booked up until the kind of times you mentioned but ieltsvancouver.com still had space for earlier tests. There might still be somewhere with spaces towards the end of July!

nikki dreaming

How frustrating, I guess they have to draw the line in the sand and set a date, administering a grace period could be a nightmare.

Good luck, hope it doesnt delay things too much

Mr and Mrs B.

I know to other people it might seem silly to be distraught over this but I really am. It just makes me so nervous about all the other things they could change at the drop of a hat (we have basically compiled all the other stuff already, e.g certificates, references, contracts et, for the application to London) and I suppose I never fully realised how easily they can brush all that hard work aside. I have checked but there seems to be only 1 official ielts centre here in TO. and that's the one with the places in august and sept. They have also opened a centre in Richmond hill but we don't drive so we have to figure out if it is do-able by public transport.

And another aspect is the cost, of course $285 for something that is basically one really big expensive hoop! I haven't managed to find a job yet and we have better uses for $285. I know we have to pay for medicals (if we ever get to that stage!) but I feel this is a little different. This is paying for something when you have other ways to prove your language ability.

CanadaJimmy

Trust me I was feeling very much exactly the same. I was raging and having doubts all weekend. Then yesterday I booked the test, and that snapped me out of it, however I was lucky to get one so early. The bottom line is, if you want to stay here, you have no choice, you have to do it, and considering everyone is going to be rushing to do these tests, the sooner you book the better.

Being an immigrant gives you very little protection from what the state decides to do, it's just the way it is. There are many, many other things I'd rather spend $285 on as well, trust me, but you just can't put a price on living where you want to live.

However, if after all this expense I don't get PR, it will be bloody annoying, thats for sure!

Mr and Mrs B.

Thanks. I understand that a line must be drawn but it is really unfair to do it like this I feel. As fair as I was aware, there was no indication that tests for native speakers were going to become obligatory so it comes as a bit of a shock...

It all just makes me a little emotional. The extra costs, the delay in application (which means cic will have even more time to change the rules on us.)

Mr and Mrs B.

You're right and I'm going through all of that now....just spoken to Mr B and he is rather sanguine about it all. He may not have realised all the implications....Another problem is that I needed a police certificate from Holland which I obtained in May when I was there (the only way to do it is to go in person or send in your orginal passport(!!)) and that will now be invalid by the time the test results come through....which means even more expense ($50CAD roughly)

And then of course there is the added worry that Mr B might fail his test... I teach TEFL and doing a TEFL/IELTS test as a native speaker is quite different from doing it as a speaker of another language...

Gremmie

If you bother to read half the posts just on this forum alone, you will see that a test for the Brits is needed. The quality of both writen & spoken English is terrible (including my own, the writen any way )