Stop Throwing Mud at Goa-please...!
#46
Account Closed






Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,146

If you go back over the threads you will see that the Acron buyers have a thread set up for Acron puchasers
post on there and Im sure someone will get in touch with you
post on there and Im sure someone will get in touch with you
#47
Forum Regular


Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 71

whilst we love goa, we are certainly not blinkered to its problems, people and growing pains and the ingress of russians. coming back from morjim beach one day we nearly fell off our scooter seeing a lifesize statue of lenin pointing into the distance.
i have said for about a year i dont thinkk the goans know what they are getting into with them and i dont think the russians quite know what they are getting into with the goans.
i cant find the article on what goans think of us. i have been involved with the press and have seen news reported that was to do with me which did us a favour in a campaign. We won. so i wouldnt take too much notice of it knowing how biased it could be.
it may have been a really wonderful place decades ago but we didnt know it then we only know it now, so we dont know any difference. we are not into clubbing, busy beaches, drugs, drinking ouselves into a stupour.
yes i worry about the refuse too, they have been putting it in the gutters for thousands of years but fail to reliase that its now plastics and it wont bio degrade. i want to show the kids what happens in a fish tank how plastics coat the bottoms, the rocks etc. they have to be educated and they will educate their parents and you will have got that generation. but poor kids wont get that education.
i am very green over here and especially with rubbish and have bought my own pick up claws for the canal we are on.
they are starting to recycle but need help with the infrastructure and methods. there is so much expat experience over there that could be harnessed to give everyone something back, including the expats.
please email us and let us know your thoughts honestly along with the declining goan love affair.
(SNIP)
we will appreciate any feedback.
john & katrina
kat
i have said for about a year i dont thinkk the goans know what they are getting into with them and i dont think the russians quite know what they are getting into with the goans.
i cant find the article on what goans think of us. i have been involved with the press and have seen news reported that was to do with me which did us a favour in a campaign. We won. so i wouldnt take too much notice of it knowing how biased it could be.
it may have been a really wonderful place decades ago but we didnt know it then we only know it now, so we dont know any difference. we are not into clubbing, busy beaches, drugs, drinking ouselves into a stupour.
yes i worry about the refuse too, they have been putting it in the gutters for thousands of years but fail to reliase that its now plastics and it wont bio degrade. i want to show the kids what happens in a fish tank how plastics coat the bottoms, the rocks etc. they have to be educated and they will educate their parents and you will have got that generation. but poor kids wont get that education.
i am very green over here and especially with rubbish and have bought my own pick up claws for the canal we are on.
they are starting to recycle but need help with the infrastructure and methods. there is so much expat experience over there that could be harnessed to give everyone something back, including the expats.
please email us and let us know your thoughts honestly along with the declining goan love affair.
(SNIP)
we will appreciate any feedback.
john & katrina
kat
I cannot believe that you really think that you will show kids what happens in a fish tank and all Goas problems will be solved.
The truth is you will never be accepted as anything other than a foreigner, and Goans do not like to be told how to do things.
I nearly choked when I read that you think you can go along to the man who "runs the village" and talk to him about the problems.
The facts are that you are buying a house which you will never own, and you really are living in a dream world if you think you are going to come to Goa and sort it all out. Do yourself a favour and keep your money. Have your two weeks holiday in Goa and keep looking through your rose tinted specs. Believe me you will save yourself a lot of hassle.
#48
Account Closed






Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,146

Kat, I have read your posts a few times and I just dont understand where you are getting your ideas from.
I cannot believe that you really think that you will show kids what happens in a fish tank and all Goas problems will be solved.
The truth is you will never be accepted as anything other than a foreigner, and Goans do not like to be told how to do things.
I nearly choked when I read that you think you can go along to the man who "runs the village" and talk to him about the problems.
The facts are that you are buying a house which you will never own, and you really are living in a dream world if you think you are going to come to Goa and sort it all out. Do yourself a favour and keep your money. Have your two weeks holiday in Goa and keep looking through your rose tinted specs. Believe me you will save yourself a lot of hassle.
I cannot believe that you really think that you will show kids what happens in a fish tank and all Goas problems will be solved.
The truth is you will never be accepted as anything other than a foreigner, and Goans do not like to be told how to do things.
I nearly choked when I read that you think you can go along to the man who "runs the village" and talk to him about the problems.
The facts are that you are buying a house which you will never own, and you really are living in a dream world if you think you are going to come to Goa and sort it all out. Do yourself a favour and keep your money. Have your two weeks holiday in Goa and keep looking through your rose tinted specs. Believe me you will save yourself a lot of hassle.




ears
#49
Banned







Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,478











Oh Katrina, oh dear, oh dear!
Where do we start?
Goacrazy56, Poppetjay, myself and others have tried to clarify things but you steadfastly insist on living in cloud-cuckooland.
For a start, you have not bought IN Siolim, you have bought well outside the village on what was an unspoilt hillside with only the chapel in the distance visible. That was until Acron, with its massive availability of bribes and government ministers in its pocket came along and threw up the monstrosity of Villa Maria, just like they have done in other beauty spots throughout Goa.
Those residents of Siolim who actually care {and there are suprisingly few!) consider it an abomination, so do not be too forthcoming about where you live.
Among the few "basics" you were seeking in your move to Goa, according to an earlier post, was a swimming pool. Strangely enough, in an area of frequent water shortages, tis not a "norm" for the residents of our village.
Something you may have thought would be is running water..........no! most of Siolim gets water from 8am till mid-day, the rest of the village gets the same duration alternate days..........but don't worry, that will not be a problem at an Acron development, it will all be taken care of along with things like waste disposal......this will be taken off, out of your site and dumped in someone else's property.
You say of your future plans...... "anyway we are just about to furnish it and rent it out. we intend to live in goa for the winters and france for the summers and sometime here." Well it may get a bit crowded in the winter then because thats the only time it will be rentable.
I am sure you are nice people and its clear you have had a hard time in the UK with your shop, it must be difficult having to wait for paying customers to walk through the door. At least our business was pro-active and we could go out and fight for for business. Sadly though it is clear you are delusional about life in Goa, as has been pointed out over and over again.
Just accept that you have bought an overpriced luxury apartment, that is typical of the ruination of rural Goa, where you will be cosseted and pampered and stop trying to be Mother Theresa and Gandhi-ji rolled into one.
Finally, your assertion that the Goans need us for the tourism income......forget it, the Russian scum spend more, the majority of "locals" are only interested in the immediate future, Goans who do not live near the coastal strip get very little direct benefit, and if you do not believe the immense ability of Indians to "cut off their nose to spite their face", read in detail the Tata Nano saga in West Bengal - amazing!
Please keep on with your posts, though, a little light relief after dealing with trying to LIVE here all day is most welcome.
Where do we start?
Goacrazy56, Poppetjay, myself and others have tried to clarify things but you steadfastly insist on living in cloud-cuckooland.
For a start, you have not bought IN Siolim, you have bought well outside the village on what was an unspoilt hillside with only the chapel in the distance visible. That was until Acron, with its massive availability of bribes and government ministers in its pocket came along and threw up the monstrosity of Villa Maria, just like they have done in other beauty spots throughout Goa.
Those residents of Siolim who actually care {and there are suprisingly few!) consider it an abomination, so do not be too forthcoming about where you live.
Among the few "basics" you were seeking in your move to Goa, according to an earlier post, was a swimming pool. Strangely enough, in an area of frequent water shortages, tis not a "norm" for the residents of our village.
Something you may have thought would be is running water..........no! most of Siolim gets water from 8am till mid-day, the rest of the village gets the same duration alternate days..........but don't worry, that will not be a problem at an Acron development, it will all be taken care of along with things like waste disposal......this will be taken off, out of your site and dumped in someone else's property.
You say of your future plans...... "anyway we are just about to furnish it and rent it out. we intend to live in goa for the winters and france for the summers and sometime here." Well it may get a bit crowded in the winter then because thats the only time it will be rentable.
I am sure you are nice people and its clear you have had a hard time in the UK with your shop, it must be difficult having to wait for paying customers to walk through the door. At least our business was pro-active and we could go out and fight for for business. Sadly though it is clear you are delusional about life in Goa, as has been pointed out over and over again.
Just accept that you have bought an overpriced luxury apartment, that is typical of the ruination of rural Goa, where you will be cosseted and pampered and stop trying to be Mother Theresa and Gandhi-ji rolled into one.
Finally, your assertion that the Goans need us for the tourism income......forget it, the Russian scum spend more, the majority of "locals" are only interested in the immediate future, Goans who do not live near the coastal strip get very little direct benefit, and if you do not believe the immense ability of Indians to "cut off their nose to spite their face", read in detail the Tata Nano saga in West Bengal - amazing!
Please keep on with your posts, though, a little light relief after dealing with trying to LIVE here all day is most welcome.
#50
Account Closed






Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,146

Well who could follow that little chapter!!!!!!!
thumbsup:


thumbsup:
Last edited by Goacrazy56; Oct 18th 2008 at 6:48 am.
#51
Kat....oh dear....go to the village! I have been following for a few days and I'm amazed that you feel you can make thingd better, be accepted and get through and do things the Government don't want you doing!! This is not what you think. Goa for Goans is what 'save Goa' means and as has been said that means Goa and Goans without the FN's and non Goans - even though they are Indian they receive awful treatment and I have seen it working for a chairty in Goa!!! This is what amazes me!
The Goans want Goa back for them; they call the non Goans 'Ghantis' and much worse.
I have been renting from a fantastic Goan family during my time in Goa and they say the place has gone downhill with a very corrupt Gov't! They are fantastic and even often said a lot of Goans now want FN's and all non Goans out. And he is right, in fact I simply will not repeat what I have heard by some people in Goa!
The development is pathetic, they can't even sort out their garbage and sewerage problems. Now don't tell me it is India and that it's developing because there are places in India that have either solved this issue or deal with it a lot better. The only interest of the Government is filling their pockets! Heard this Hindi saying? 'chalis chor' well it means '40 thieves' and refers to the Government as they are only developing for their pockets and not for the people. They want massive projects to generate them money but will not look at basic infastructure first to support Goa as it is now let alone with the extra that will be required with such projects!
The Goans refuse all projects for that reason and also for another reason and that is. The employment created will go to non Goans which will create a further influx of migrants of Indian people from other Indian states. Yes ok this is their state and everyone has their own state but that is not very constitutional. So where will you fit in!? Where most of the FN's have done!
The Goans have had their land 'raped' as they say by FN's, non Goans and the Government and they want to 'save Goa' to get it back.
The registration of deeds can be refused by the registrar if you are foreign! That was recently changed as Goa does not want FN's owning property! Also there isn't a visa that allows you to live here really. If they wanted/allowed you to buy here then as in Dubai and Brabados, for example, buying property would be simple and would give you residency rights!
It is a bad idea to buy in Goa. The people that have done it say it, I have heard UK based estate agents advice against it and the Goan Government say do not come to Goa for anything more than a holiday!
Ok Goa is still a great place and I have just returned to the dreaded UK and it is, well let’s not even go there, but that doesn't mean the troubles of Goa are non exsistant. Atleast in the UK, layers, developers and the like aren't going to tell you anything just to get your cash! The troubles are bigger then you think. You are the Foreigner and that will always remain....!
Oh and yes Goa needs tourism to survive but that doesn't mean the Government, through the one tracked mind it has, wont destory it. Sadly, I see Goa getting left behind in terms of development and growth that the rest of India is seeing and will see.
I wish you luck but I just hope you really really know what you are getting in to. As lovely as Goa and all of India really is, they are top class at messing things up for themselves! They aren't all like that but often this is the case and over the last few years more so.
The Goans want Goa back for them; they call the non Goans 'Ghantis' and much worse.
I have been renting from a fantastic Goan family during my time in Goa and they say the place has gone downhill with a very corrupt Gov't! They are fantastic and even often said a lot of Goans now want FN's and all non Goans out. And he is right, in fact I simply will not repeat what I have heard by some people in Goa!
The development is pathetic, they can't even sort out their garbage and sewerage problems. Now don't tell me it is India and that it's developing because there are places in India that have either solved this issue or deal with it a lot better. The only interest of the Government is filling their pockets! Heard this Hindi saying? 'chalis chor' well it means '40 thieves' and refers to the Government as they are only developing for their pockets and not for the people. They want massive projects to generate them money but will not look at basic infastructure first to support Goa as it is now let alone with the extra that will be required with such projects!
The Goans refuse all projects for that reason and also for another reason and that is. The employment created will go to non Goans which will create a further influx of migrants of Indian people from other Indian states. Yes ok this is their state and everyone has their own state but that is not very constitutional. So where will you fit in!? Where most of the FN's have done!
The Goans have had their land 'raped' as they say by FN's, non Goans and the Government and they want to 'save Goa' to get it back.
The registration of deeds can be refused by the registrar if you are foreign! That was recently changed as Goa does not want FN's owning property! Also there isn't a visa that allows you to live here really. If they wanted/allowed you to buy here then as in Dubai and Brabados, for example, buying property would be simple and would give you residency rights!
It is a bad idea to buy in Goa. The people that have done it say it, I have heard UK based estate agents advice against it and the Goan Government say do not come to Goa for anything more than a holiday!
Ok Goa is still a great place and I have just returned to the dreaded UK and it is, well let’s not even go there, but that doesn't mean the troubles of Goa are non exsistant. Atleast in the UK, layers, developers and the like aren't going to tell you anything just to get your cash! The troubles are bigger then you think. You are the Foreigner and that will always remain....!
Oh and yes Goa needs tourism to survive but that doesn't mean the Government, through the one tracked mind it has, wont destory it. Sadly, I see Goa getting left behind in terms of development and growth that the rest of India is seeing and will see.
I wish you luck but I just hope you really really know what you are getting in to. As lovely as Goa and all of India really is, they are top class at messing things up for themselves! They aren't all like that but often this is the case and over the last few years more so.
Last edited by berkshire1987; Oct 18th 2008 at 12:57 pm.
#52
Forum Regular

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 48








good morning to you all. thanks for your input, i am taking on board what you say, honestly and i am relaying it to john.
i am so glad that i am amusing you, it sounds like you could do with some cheering up. reading between the lines, it sounds like you are all very worried and i am sorry for that. it cant be much fun living day to day with the stress of worrying what might happen. I have lived with the threat of loosing my home due to financial problems, exhub and i were under 30 day respossession at one time, thanks to me we got through it, but the stress was debilitating.
i will say for one last time, we are well aware of the problems, trials and tribulations within the goan/indian system but still willing to give it a punt. we do have a trick or two up our sleeves in an emergency.
when mentioning things that i would like to do and what could be done, i am giving you a thumbnail overview, of course i dont think for one minute that i am going to be siolim's saviour, sorry if i gave that impression. its difficult trying to explain in this form and easy to give the wrong impression.
i do want to get involved in the village life when we are there for longer periods, giving time not particularly money. if its not welcome than fine at least ive tried. perhaps i might approach the russians for their money on behalf of the institutions!
i know that villa maria is a bit of a blot but to me no more so than the properties on the hills opposite which are quite visable and numerous other developments in arpora and the surrounding areas. if acron has such clout why has it only developed within the original site? why only 3 floors. if bribing is the norm, which it is, so be it. really i would have loved to buy an old place and refurb it but having heard some nightmare stories we didnt.
i think the goans are probably short sighted but its not like over here, if they fail, they starve if we fail here in the uk and then the benefit system will kick in and help but you certainly wont starve.
anyway, hope i have given you more fodder to come back!!!
kat
i am so glad that i am amusing you, it sounds like you could do with some cheering up. reading between the lines, it sounds like you are all very worried and i am sorry for that. it cant be much fun living day to day with the stress of worrying what might happen. I have lived with the threat of loosing my home due to financial problems, exhub and i were under 30 day respossession at one time, thanks to me we got through it, but the stress was debilitating.
i will say for one last time, we are well aware of the problems, trials and tribulations within the goan/indian system but still willing to give it a punt. we do have a trick or two up our sleeves in an emergency.
when mentioning things that i would like to do and what could be done, i am giving you a thumbnail overview, of course i dont think for one minute that i am going to be siolim's saviour, sorry if i gave that impression. its difficult trying to explain in this form and easy to give the wrong impression.
i do want to get involved in the village life when we are there for longer periods, giving time not particularly money. if its not welcome than fine at least ive tried. perhaps i might approach the russians for their money on behalf of the institutions!
i know that villa maria is a bit of a blot but to me no more so than the properties on the hills opposite which are quite visable and numerous other developments in arpora and the surrounding areas. if acron has such clout why has it only developed within the original site? why only 3 floors. if bribing is the norm, which it is, so be it. really i would have loved to buy an old place and refurb it but having heard some nightmare stories we didnt.
i think the goans are probably short sighted but its not like over here, if they fail, they starve if we fail here in the uk and then the benefit system will kick in and help but you certainly wont starve.
anyway, hope i have given you more fodder to come back!!!
kat
#53
Forum Regular

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 48








Correction - someone commented about our shop and i think i may have given the wrong impression.
the shop was very popular and successful for over 5 years and right upto the end which was over a year ago now. hub saw the signs of how things were going and we quit whilst we were ahead.
kat
the shop was very popular and successful for over 5 years and right upto the end which was over a year ago now. hub saw the signs of how things were going and we quit whilst we were ahead.
kat
#54
johnny five, berkshire1987 - I agree with 90% of what you are saying, and as anyone will know who has read my posts, I do not recommend anyone to buy in Goa now (despite having done it myself!), but I do think that you (and the emminent Maria Aurora Coutho and friends from Aldona) are being a bit harsh on Acron. They are a long established company and imho their build quality is really quite good and when their developments bed down they blend in to the surroundings quite well. They pay more attention to water conservation, composting, garbage and sewage processing than any Goan government organisation. They tell me their swimming pools are filled by tanker during / after the monsoons when water is plentiful, and they manage their bore well use properly. I see nothing wrong with showing people that things can be done better!
I have no connection with the company, at all.
Having said all that if Tata can't swing it for the Nano project then all talk of a dynamic successful emerging economy is "indian eyewash".
AndyD 8-)#
I have no connection with the company, at all.
Having said all that if Tata can't swing it for the Nano project then all talk of a dynamic successful emerging economy is "indian eyewash".
AndyD 8-)#
#55
I'm not really worried at all. I have good Goan mates mainly because they have been away from Goa, have worked all their lives and have lived in other country'. So as a result the outlook outlook and attitude they all hold is very positive. I have been renting from a Goan family for a good time and they look after me well. Me and my landlord discuss the political issues as though I have been here years and it is great to hear his point of view in fact it is very interesting. I feel like I'm in a family unit now.
The more people that want to buy in Goa the more these developers build on the attractive Goan land. The locals are starting to protest with a bit a rage. And rightly so. Some developments have been stopped. It is what you want to buy that is damaging the real beauty of the Goan land. That is why we now see the 'save Goa' and yeah lovely hillocks and fields being destroyed by horrible blocks of concrete. You can see why the proud Goans only want Goans in Goa because that way developers will not be building for FN's and rich Delliites, Mumbaikars etc etc in Goan fields!
In recent years gorgeous Goan land/fields has had these horrible concrete blocks go up. In them you will find rich out of state Indians and FN's. The Goans as a result have the 'save Goa' banner and fair play to be honest. This has created this Goa for Goans only and is why local Panchayats members want develpments to go through the gram sabha before they start to build in the panchayat. In cases the sarpanch of some panchayats have been attacked for their contribution of destroying Goa. Some developments have been stopped with force by locals as they simply do not want them.
They don't want them because non Goans come and pay more than Goans putting prices out of their range in their own land! As well as destroting their fields! Non Goans also include the Goans that sell to FN's or leave the state.
So that is how it goes. I have not bought here and I'm glad. I renting a Goan house that belongs to a Goan family of the village!
Goa has a lot of stunning scenery and developers will chop, against the Goans' wishes, it for the demand and the demand is FN's and rich of out state Indians!
Again as I say I'm advising against buying in Goa not against coming to Goa!!!! Understand that at least!
The more people that want to buy in Goa the more these developers build on the attractive Goan land. The locals are starting to protest with a bit a rage. And rightly so. Some developments have been stopped. It is what you want to buy that is damaging the real beauty of the Goan land. That is why we now see the 'save Goa' and yeah lovely hillocks and fields being destroyed by horrible blocks of concrete. You can see why the proud Goans only want Goans in Goa because that way developers will not be building for FN's and rich Delliites, Mumbaikars etc etc in Goan fields!
In recent years gorgeous Goan land/fields has had these horrible concrete blocks go up. In them you will find rich out of state Indians and FN's. The Goans as a result have the 'save Goa' banner and fair play to be honest. This has created this Goa for Goans only and is why local Panchayats members want develpments to go through the gram sabha before they start to build in the panchayat. In cases the sarpanch of some panchayats have been attacked for their contribution of destroying Goa. Some developments have been stopped with force by locals as they simply do not want them.
They don't want them because non Goans come and pay more than Goans putting prices out of their range in their own land! As well as destroting their fields! Non Goans also include the Goans that sell to FN's or leave the state.
So that is how it goes. I have not bought here and I'm glad. I renting a Goan house that belongs to a Goan family of the village!
Goa has a lot of stunning scenery and developers will chop, against the Goans' wishes, it for the demand and the demand is FN's and rich of out state Indians!
Again as I say I'm advising against buying in Goa not against coming to Goa!!!! Understand that at least!
Last edited by berkshire1987; Oct 19th 2008 at 1:51 am.
#56
Forum Regular

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 48








hi berkshire87 - thanks for that bit of positivity! we bought or 'leased' two years ago, i think if it were now we were buying we wouldnt. however, its too late now, so we plan to make the most of it. we were impressed with acron, the build, the finish, the responsiblity with water and other issues with solar panels, they went through all of it with us carefully as we had issues with the environmental side.
i will go onto the acron site so thanks to whoever put that in.
berkshire87 - what is the best paper or site to visit to keep uptodate with things happening in goa please? i read the hearald sometimes and the goan voic and i want something that is unbiased as possible.
kat
#57
berkshire87 - what is the best paper or site to visit to keep uptodate with things happening in goa please? i read the hearald sometimes and the goan voic and i want something that is unbiased as possible.
kat[/QUOTE]
Oh dear unbiased paper in Goa? Mmmm well I only sometimes read those two papers which are ok I know they have big Goan readership. They have online editions though so you can read it from outside Goa. Sadly, they can often be in one direction though. That is the trouble!
kat[/QUOTE]
Oh dear unbiased paper in Goa? Mmmm well I only sometimes read those two papers which are ok I know they have big Goan readership. They have online editions though so you can read it from outside Goa. Sadly, they can often be in one direction though. That is the trouble!
#58
Account Closed






Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,146

hi berkshire87 - thanks for that bit of positivity! we bought or 'leased' two years ago, i think if it were now we were buying we wouldnt. however, its too late now, so we plan to make the most of it. we were impressed with acron, the build, the finish, the responsiblity with water and other issues with solar panels, they went through all of it with us carefully as we had issues with the environmental side.
i will go onto the acron site so thanks to whoever put that in.
berkshire87 - what is the best paper or site to visit to keep uptodate with things happening in goa please? i read the hearald sometimes and the goan voic and i want something that is unbiased as possible.
kat
Indian times.com and navhinda times.com is also worth looking at
I don't think any of us would have bought if we had known then what we know now so you are not on your own.The problem now is getting your the money out of Goa that as been invested.we can't register the property so we can't sell it,It's a catch 22 situation.So like you we are trying to make the best of things whilst we still have the property.We have resided ourselves now to the fact that eventually we will get turfed out of Goa loosing all our saving and a big chunk of our pension fund.
Goacrazy56
Last edited by Goacrazy56; Oct 19th 2008 at 3:26 am.
#59
Forum Regular

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 48








im reading bits and bobs all over the place and also telhelka? any good?
kat
kat




