GOA - Buyer Beware!
Jun 12th 2007, 5:20 pm
#196
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 863
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Many thanks for your kind words
and sorry for unwittingly causing you to get confused a little flustered!:curse:
I have an article i kept on file from the Daily Telegraph (Sat,19/11/05) by Rupert Bates 'Hippie replacement just the tonic' (may be possible to view it from www.property.telegraph.co.uk) (?)Anyway near the end he says,
'' Stamp duty is 6% & WHILE YOU CAN SELL AT ANY TIME capital gains tax is 20% if you have owned for more than 3 years and 30% if less than 3 years.''
So i don't know if the laws have changed since the article was written, or if the journalist was misinformed, but inorder to set us all straight on the 3 year Lock in which you mentioned it would be very helpful to have a specific source please.
Also in answer to your previous Q's, my Agreement of Sale (which is also some times called Agreement of Construction) has Rs20 of 'Notarial' stamps on the last page and a green Rs20 note printed on the front page, and rubber stamp marks by the government appointed Notary on each of the pages of the document (which contains previous land ownership details, constuction and internal specs, floor plan, a list of the clauses of contract, and payment schedule etc).
I don't really want to go into much more detail (and frankly i lack the time to do so) as i've come to realise that Agreements of sale etc can vary greatly from vendor to vendor and are often client specific, so i can see little point in disecting my own document here if its not applicable to others and i wouldn't want to cause anymore inadvertant confusion.
Thanks anyway for your help and good luck with your own property issues,
Regards, TDK
and sorry for unwittingly causing you to get confused a little flustered!:curse: I have an article i kept on file from the Daily Telegraph (Sat,19/11/05) by Rupert Bates 'Hippie replacement just the tonic' (may be possible to view it from www.property.telegraph.co.uk) (?)Anyway near the end he says,
'' Stamp duty is 6% & WHILE YOU CAN SELL AT ANY TIME capital gains tax is 20% if you have owned for more than 3 years and 30% if less than 3 years.''
So i don't know if the laws have changed since the article was written, or if the journalist was misinformed, but inorder to set us all straight on the 3 year Lock in which you mentioned it would be very helpful to have a specific source please.
Also in answer to your previous Q's, my Agreement of Sale (which is also some times called Agreement of Construction) has Rs20 of 'Notarial' stamps on the last page and a green Rs20 note printed on the front page, and rubber stamp marks by the government appointed Notary on each of the pages of the document (which contains previous land ownership details, constuction and internal specs, floor plan, a list of the clauses of contract, and payment schedule etc).
I don't really want to go into much more detail (and frankly i lack the time to do so) as i've come to realise that Agreements of sale etc can vary greatly from vendor to vendor and are often client specific, so i can see little point in disecting my own document here if its not applicable to others and i wouldn't want to cause anymore inadvertant confusion.
Thanks anyway for your help and good luck with your own property issues,
Regards, TDK
Stamp duty on registration of a sale deed is at 2% of the consideration and registration fee is 4 % .
Stamp duty on registration of an agreement to sale is 1%, thats why i asked you for details of the stamps on the document in order to identify it. You appear to have had it notarised rather than registered with the collector.
The agreement you have signed has now been clearly identified and we are in a position to proceed with the advice.
Unfortunately you seem to have tired of the exercise, the three year lock in is not applicable in the solution to your case.
regards
douglas
Jun 12th 2007, 9:06 pm
#197
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 863
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Hi all,
Working on this lock in issue for my own benefit and came acros this master circular on NRO accounts that should be of interest to most non residents.
Both on the issue of lock in and other matters.
I have underlined the salient points ie permitted deposits as in (4A, note that the specific exemptions from lock in for repatriation of immovable property apply to pios and nris (4B. and (51a
In the case of non resident FNs it is silent, that indicates to D that lock in is still in force for this class.
In the para (5ii b refering to no lock in it qualifies it ie it is only applicable to inheritance and legacy proceeds , not sale.
douglas
Master Circular No. /03/2006-07
July 1, 2006
To,
All Banks Authorised to Deal in Foreign Exchange
Madam/Sir,
Master Circular on Non-Resident Ordinary Rupee (NRO) Account
The acceptance of deposits by an authorised dealer / authorised bank from persons resident outside India are regulated by the provisions off sub-sections (1) and (2) of section 6 of the Foreign Exchange Management Act, 1999 read with FEMA Notification No.5/2000 RB dated May 3, 2000 as amended from time to time.
2. This Master Circular consolidates the existing instructions on the subject of "Non-Resident Ordinary Rupee (NRO) Account" at one place. The list of underlying circulars/notifications consolidated in this Master Circular is furnished in the Appendix.
3. This Master Circular is being issued with a sunset clause of one year. This circular will stand withdrawn on July 1, 2007 and be replaced by an updated Master Circular on the subject
Yours faithfully,
M. Sebastian
Chief General Manager
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Master Circular on Non-Resident Ordinary Rupee (NRO) Account Scheme
1. Eligibility
(a) Any person/entity resident outside India may open NRO account with an authorised dealer or an authorised bank for the purpose of putting through bonafide transactions denominated in Rupees.
(b) Opening of accounts by individuals/entities of Bangladesh/Pakistan nationality/ownership requires prior approval of Reserve Bank.
2. Types of Accounts
NRO accounts may be opened / maintained in the form of current, savings, recurring or fixed deposit accounts. Rate of interest applicable to these accounts and guidelines for opening, operating and maintenance of such accounts shall be in accordance with directives/instructions issued by Reserve Bank (DBOD) from time to time.
3. Joint Accounts with Residents/Non-residents
The accounts may be held jointly with residents and / or with non-residents.
4. Permissible Credits/Debits
A. Credits
Proceeds of remittances from outside India through normal banking channels received in foreign currency which is freely convertible.
Any foreign currency which is freely convertible tendered by the account-holder during his temporary visit to India. Foreign currency exceeding USD 5000/- or its equivalent in form of cash should be supported by Currency Declaration Form. Rupee funds should be supported by Encashment Certificate, if they represent funds brought from outside India.
Transfers from rupee accounts of non-resident banks.
Legitimate dues in India of the account holder. This includes current income like rent, dividend, pension, interest etc. as also sale proceeds of assets including immovable property acquired out of rupee/foreign currency funds or by way of legacy/inheritance.
B. Debits
All local payments in rupees including payments for investments in India subject to compliance with the relevant regulations made by the Reserve Bank.
Remittance outside India of current income like rent, dividend, pension, interest etc. in India of the account holder.
Remittance up to USD One million, per calendar year, out of in the NRO account of NRI/PIO for all bonafide purposes to the satisfaction of the authorised dealer bank.
5. Remittance of assets
5.1 Remittance of assets by NRI/PIO
NRIs/PIO may remit through an Authorised Dealer bank, an amount not exceeding USD One million per calendar year, out of balances held in the NRO account representing the sale proceeds of assets (a) acquired in India out of rupee/foreign currency funds or (b) by way of inheritance/legacy or settlement (settlement is also a mode of inheritance from the parent, the only difference being that the property under the settlement passes to the beneficiary on the death of the owner/parent without any legal procedures/hassles and helps in avoiding delay and inconvenience in applying for probate, etc.) from a person who was resident in India subject to conditions outlined below :
(a) Assets acquired in India out of rupee/foreign currency funds
(i) Immovable property
NRI/PIO may remit sale proceeds of immovable property purchased by him as a resident or out of Rupee funds as NRI/PIO provided such a property was held by him for a period of not less than ten years. If such a property is sold after being held for less than ten years, remittance can be made, if the sale proceeds were held for the balance period in NRO account (Savings/Term Deposit) or in any other eligible investment to the satisfaction of the authorised dealer bank.
(ii) Other financial assets
For remittance of sale proceeds of financial assets there is no lock-in-period.
(b) Assets acquired by way of inheritance/legacy or settlement
For remittance of sale proceeds of assets, both financial and immovable property acquired by way of inheritance/legacy or settlement from a person who was resident in India there is no lock-in-period. NRI/PIO may submit to the satisfaction of Authorised Dealer bank documentary evidence in support of inheritance/legacy or settlement.
5.2 Remittance of sale proceeds assets through NRO account by a person resident outside India other than NRI/PIO
A citizen of a foreign state not being a citizen of Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal or Bhutan who
(i) has retired from an employment in India, or
(ii) has inherited assets from a person who was resident in India, or
(iii) is a widow resident outside India and has inherited assets of her deceased husband who was an Indian citizen resident in India.
may remit an amount up to USD One million, per calendar year, on production of documentary evidence in support of acquisition, inheritance or legacy of assets to the authorised dealer bank.
5.3 Restrictions
(a) The facility of remittance of sale proceeds of immovable property is not available to a citizen of Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, China, Afghanistan, Iran, Nepal and Bhutan (b) The facility of remittance of sale proceeds of other financial assets is not available to a citizen of Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal and Bhutan.
6. Foreign Nationals of non-Indian origin on a visit to India
NRO account (current/savings) can be opened by a foreign national of non-Indian origin visiting India, with funds remitted from outside India through banking channel or by sale of foreign exchange brought by him to India. The balance in the NRO account may be converted by the authorized dealer / bank into foreign currency for payment to the account holder at the time of his departure from India provided the account has been maintained for a period not exceeding six months and the account has not been credited with any local funds, other than interest accrued thereon.
7. Grant of Loans/overdrafts by authorised dealer / bank to account holders and third parties
(a) Loans to non-resident account holders and to third parties may be granted in Rupees by authorised dealer / bank against the security of fixed deposits subject to the following terms and conditions:
(i) The loans shall be utilised only for meeting borrower's personal requirements and/or business purpose and not for carrying on agricultural/plantation activities or real estate business or for re-lending.
(ii) Regulations relating to margin and rate of interest as stipulated by Reserve Bank from time to time shall be complied with.
(iii) The usual norms and considerations as applicable in the case of advances to trade/industry shall be applicable for such loans/facilities granted to third parties.
(b) Authorised dealer / bank may permit overdraft in the account of the account holder subject to his commercial judgement and compliance with the interest rate etc. directives.
8. Change of Resident Status of Account holder
(a) From Resident to Non-resident
When a person resident in India leaves India for a country (other than Nepal or Bhutan) for taking up employment or for carrying on business or vocation outside India or for any other purpose indicating his intention to stay outside India for an uncertain period, his existing account should be designated as a Non-Resident (Ordinary) Account.
When a person resident in India leaves for Nepal or Bhutan for taking up employment or for carrying on business or vocation or for any other purposes indicating his intention to stay in Nepal or Bhutan for an uncertain period, his existing account will continue as a resident account. Such account should not be designated as Non-Resident (Ordinary) Account (NRO).
(b) From Non-Resident to Resident
NRO accounts may be re-designated as resident rupee accounts on the return of the account holder to India for taking up employment, or for carrying on business or vocation or for any other purpose indicating his intention to stay in India for an uncertain period. Where the account holder is only on a temporary visit to India, the account should continue to be treated as non-resident during such visit.
9. Treatment of loans/overdrafts in the event of change in the resident status of the borrower
In case of person who had availed of loan or overdraft facilities while resident in India and who subsequently becomes a person resident outside India, the authorised dealer / bank may at their discretion and commercial judgement allow continuance of the loan/overdraft facilities. In such cases, payment of interest and repayment of loan may be made by inward remittance or out of legitimate resources in India of the person concerned.
10. Payment of funds to Non-resident/Resident Nominee
The amount due/payable to non-resident nominee from the NRO account of a deceased account holder shall be credited to NRO account of the nominee with an authorised dealer / bank in India. The amount payable to resident nominee from the NRO account of a deceased account holder shall be credited to resident account of the nominee with a bank in India.
11. Facilities to a person going abroad for studies
Persons going abroad for studies are treated as Non-Resident Indians (NRIs) and are eligible for all the facilities available to NRIs. Educational and other loans availed of by them as residents in India will continue to be available as per FEMA regulations.
12. International Credit Cards
Authorised dealer banks have been permitted to issue International Credit Cards to NRIs/PIO, without prior approval of RBI. Such transactions may be settled by inward remittance or out of balances held in the cardholder's FCNR/NRE/NRO Accounts.
13. Income-Tax
The remittances (net of applicable taxes) will be allowed to be made by the authorised dealer banks on production of an undertaking by the remitter and a Certificate from a Chartered Accountant in the formats prescribed by the Central Board of Direct Taxes, Ministry of Finance, Government of India in their Circular No. 10/2002 dated October 9, 2002 [cf. A.P. (DIR Series) Circular No. 56 dated November 26, 2002].
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Appendix
List of notifications / circulars which have been consolidated in this Master Circular on NRO account
Sr. No.
Notification / Circulars
Date
1.
Notification No. FEMA 62/2002-RB
May 13, 2002
2.
Notification No. FEMA 97/2003-RB
July 8, 2003
3.
Notification No. FEMA 119/2004-RB
June 29,2004
1.
AP (DIR Series) Circular No.45
May 14, 2002
2.
AP (DIR Series) Circular No.1
July 2, 2002
3.
AP (DIR Series) Circular No.5
July 15, 2002
4.
AP (DIR Series) Circular No.19
September 12, 2002
5.
AP (DIR Series) Circular No.26
September 28, 2002
6.
AP (DIR Series) Circular No.27
September 28, 2002
7.
AP (DIR Series) Circular No.56
November 26, 2002
8.
AP (DIR Series) Circular No.59
December 9, 2002
9.
AP (DIR Series) Circular No.67
January 13, 2003
10.
AP (DIR Series) Circular No.43
December 8, 2003
11.
AP (DIR Series) Circular No.45
December 8, 2003
12.
AP (DIR Series) Circular No.62
January 31, 2004
13
AP (DIR Series) Circular No.43
May 13,2005
Top
Working on this lock in issue for my own benefit and came acros this master circular on NRO accounts that should be of interest to most non residents.
Both on the issue of lock in and other matters.
I have underlined the salient points ie permitted deposits as in (4A, note that the specific exemptions from lock in for repatriation of immovable property apply to pios and nris (4B. and (51a
In the case of non resident FNs it is silent, that indicates to D that lock in is still in force for this class.
In the para (5ii b refering to no lock in it qualifies it ie it is only applicable to inheritance and legacy proceeds , not sale.
douglas
Master Circular No. /03/2006-07
July 1, 2006
To,
All Banks Authorised to Deal in Foreign Exchange
Madam/Sir,
Master Circular on Non-Resident Ordinary Rupee (NRO) Account
The acceptance of deposits by an authorised dealer / authorised bank from persons resident outside India are regulated by the provisions off sub-sections (1) and (2) of section 6 of the Foreign Exchange Management Act, 1999 read with FEMA Notification No.5/2000 RB dated May 3, 2000 as amended from time to time.
2. This Master Circular consolidates the existing instructions on the subject of "Non-Resident Ordinary Rupee (NRO) Account" at one place. The list of underlying circulars/notifications consolidated in this Master Circular is furnished in the Appendix.
3. This Master Circular is being issued with a sunset clause of one year. This circular will stand withdrawn on July 1, 2007 and be replaced by an updated Master Circular on the subject
Yours faithfully,
M. Sebastian
Chief General Manager
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Master Circular on Non-Resident Ordinary Rupee (NRO) Account Scheme
1. Eligibility
(a) Any person/entity resident outside India may open NRO account with an authorised dealer or an authorised bank for the purpose of putting through bonafide transactions denominated in Rupees.
(b) Opening of accounts by individuals/entities of Bangladesh/Pakistan nationality/ownership requires prior approval of Reserve Bank.
2. Types of Accounts
NRO accounts may be opened / maintained in the form of current, savings, recurring or fixed deposit accounts. Rate of interest applicable to these accounts and guidelines for opening, operating and maintenance of such accounts shall be in accordance with directives/instructions issued by Reserve Bank (DBOD) from time to time.
3. Joint Accounts with Residents/Non-residents
The accounts may be held jointly with residents and / or with non-residents.
4. Permissible Credits/Debits
A. Credits
Proceeds of remittances from outside India through normal banking channels received in foreign currency which is freely convertible.
Any foreign currency which is freely convertible tendered by the account-holder during his temporary visit to India. Foreign currency exceeding USD 5000/- or its equivalent in form of cash should be supported by Currency Declaration Form. Rupee funds should be supported by Encashment Certificate, if they represent funds brought from outside India.
Transfers from rupee accounts of non-resident banks.
Legitimate dues in India of the account holder. This includes current income like rent, dividend, pension, interest etc. as also sale proceeds of assets including immovable property acquired out of rupee/foreign currency funds or by way of legacy/inheritance.
B. Debits
All local payments in rupees including payments for investments in India subject to compliance with the relevant regulations made by the Reserve Bank.
Remittance outside India of current income like rent, dividend, pension, interest etc. in India of the account holder.
Remittance up to USD One million, per calendar year, out of in the NRO account of NRI/PIO for all bonafide purposes to the satisfaction of the authorised dealer bank.
5. Remittance of assets
5.1 Remittance of assets by NRI/PIO
NRIs/PIO may remit through an Authorised Dealer bank, an amount not exceeding USD One million per calendar year, out of balances held in the NRO account representing the sale proceeds of assets (a) acquired in India out of rupee/foreign currency funds or (b) by way of inheritance/legacy or settlement (settlement is also a mode of inheritance from the parent, the only difference being that the property under the settlement passes to the beneficiary on the death of the owner/parent without any legal procedures/hassles and helps in avoiding delay and inconvenience in applying for probate, etc.) from a person who was resident in India subject to conditions outlined below :
(a) Assets acquired in India out of rupee/foreign currency funds
(i) Immovable property
NRI/PIO may remit sale proceeds of immovable property purchased by him as a resident or out of Rupee funds as NRI/PIO provided such a property was held by him for a period of not less than ten years. If such a property is sold after being held for less than ten years, remittance can be made, if the sale proceeds were held for the balance period in NRO account (Savings/Term Deposit) or in any other eligible investment to the satisfaction of the authorised dealer bank.
(ii) Other financial assets
For remittance of sale proceeds of financial assets there is no lock-in-period.
(b) Assets acquired by way of inheritance/legacy or settlement
For remittance of sale proceeds of assets, both financial and immovable property acquired by way of inheritance/legacy or settlement from a person who was resident in India there is no lock-in-period. NRI/PIO may submit to the satisfaction of Authorised Dealer bank documentary evidence in support of inheritance/legacy or settlement.
5.2 Remittance of sale proceeds assets through NRO account by a person resident outside India other than NRI/PIO
A citizen of a foreign state not being a citizen of Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal or Bhutan who
(i) has retired from an employment in India, or
(ii) has inherited assets from a person who was resident in India, or
(iii) is a widow resident outside India and has inherited assets of her deceased husband who was an Indian citizen resident in India.
may remit an amount up to USD One million, per calendar year, on production of documentary evidence in support of acquisition, inheritance or legacy of assets to the authorised dealer bank.
5.3 Restrictions
(a) The facility of remittance of sale proceeds of immovable property is not available to a citizen of Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, China, Afghanistan, Iran, Nepal and Bhutan (b) The facility of remittance of sale proceeds of other financial assets is not available to a citizen of Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal and Bhutan.
6. Foreign Nationals of non-Indian origin on a visit to India
NRO account (current/savings) can be opened by a foreign national of non-Indian origin visiting India, with funds remitted from outside India through banking channel or by sale of foreign exchange brought by him to India. The balance in the NRO account may be converted by the authorized dealer / bank into foreign currency for payment to the account holder at the time of his departure from India provided the account has been maintained for a period not exceeding six months and the account has not been credited with any local funds, other than interest accrued thereon.
7. Grant of Loans/overdrafts by authorised dealer / bank to account holders and third parties
(a) Loans to non-resident account holders and to third parties may be granted in Rupees by authorised dealer / bank against the security of fixed deposits subject to the following terms and conditions:
(i) The loans shall be utilised only for meeting borrower's personal requirements and/or business purpose and not for carrying on agricultural/plantation activities or real estate business or for re-lending.
(ii) Regulations relating to margin and rate of interest as stipulated by Reserve Bank from time to time shall be complied with.
(iii) The usual norms and considerations as applicable in the case of advances to trade/industry shall be applicable for such loans/facilities granted to third parties.
(b) Authorised dealer / bank may permit overdraft in the account of the account holder subject to his commercial judgement and compliance with the interest rate etc. directives.
8. Change of Resident Status of Account holder
(a) From Resident to Non-resident
When a person resident in India leaves India for a country (other than Nepal or Bhutan) for taking up employment or for carrying on business or vocation outside India or for any other purpose indicating his intention to stay outside India for an uncertain period, his existing account should be designated as a Non-Resident (Ordinary) Account.
When a person resident in India leaves for Nepal or Bhutan for taking up employment or for carrying on business or vocation or for any other purposes indicating his intention to stay in Nepal or Bhutan for an uncertain period, his existing account will continue as a resident account. Such account should not be designated as Non-Resident (Ordinary) Account (NRO).
(b) From Non-Resident to Resident
NRO accounts may be re-designated as resident rupee accounts on the return of the account holder to India for taking up employment, or for carrying on business or vocation or for any other purpose indicating his intention to stay in India for an uncertain period. Where the account holder is only on a temporary visit to India, the account should continue to be treated as non-resident during such visit.
9. Treatment of loans/overdrafts in the event of change in the resident status of the borrower
In case of person who had availed of loan or overdraft facilities while resident in India and who subsequently becomes a person resident outside India, the authorised dealer / bank may at their discretion and commercial judgement allow continuance of the loan/overdraft facilities. In such cases, payment of interest and repayment of loan may be made by inward remittance or out of legitimate resources in India of the person concerned.
10. Payment of funds to Non-resident/Resident Nominee
The amount due/payable to non-resident nominee from the NRO account of a deceased account holder shall be credited to NRO account of the nominee with an authorised dealer / bank in India. The amount payable to resident nominee from the NRO account of a deceased account holder shall be credited to resident account of the nominee with a bank in India.
11. Facilities to a person going abroad for studies
Persons going abroad for studies are treated as Non-Resident Indians (NRIs) and are eligible for all the facilities available to NRIs. Educational and other loans availed of by them as residents in India will continue to be available as per FEMA regulations.
12. International Credit Cards
Authorised dealer banks have been permitted to issue International Credit Cards to NRIs/PIO, without prior approval of RBI. Such transactions may be settled by inward remittance or out of balances held in the cardholder's FCNR/NRE/NRO Accounts.
13. Income-Tax
The remittances (net of applicable taxes) will be allowed to be made by the authorised dealer banks on production of an undertaking by the remitter and a Certificate from a Chartered Accountant in the formats prescribed by the Central Board of Direct Taxes, Ministry of Finance, Government of India in their Circular No. 10/2002 dated October 9, 2002 [cf. A.P. (DIR Series) Circular No. 56 dated November 26, 2002].
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Appendix
List of notifications / circulars which have been consolidated in this Master Circular on NRO account
Sr. No.
Notification / Circulars
Date
1.
Notification No. FEMA 62/2002-RB
May 13, 2002
2.
Notification No. FEMA 97/2003-RB
July 8, 2003
3.
Notification No. FEMA 119/2004-RB
June 29,2004
1.
AP (DIR Series) Circular No.45
May 14, 2002
2.
AP (DIR Series) Circular No.1
July 2, 2002
3.
AP (DIR Series) Circular No.5
July 15, 2002
4.
AP (DIR Series) Circular No.19
September 12, 2002
5.
AP (DIR Series) Circular No.26
September 28, 2002
6.
AP (DIR Series) Circular No.27
September 28, 2002
7.
AP (DIR Series) Circular No.56
November 26, 2002
8.
AP (DIR Series) Circular No.59
December 9, 2002
9.
AP (DIR Series) Circular No.67
January 13, 2003
10.
AP (DIR Series) Circular No.43
December 8, 2003
11.
AP (DIR Series) Circular No.45
December 8, 2003
12.
AP (DIR Series) Circular No.62
January 31, 2004
13
AP (DIR Series) Circular No.43
May 13,2005
Top
Jun 12th 2007, 10:11 pm
#198
BE Forum Addict
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,941
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Found a site you may be interest in.
www.legalserviceindia.com/calculator_stamp.htm I can't for the life of me remember what rate we paid it at, but I know it was reduced twice between 2001 and 2005 when we registered.
I don't think that calculator is accurate/ up-to-date; it shows a flat 8% for property in Goa where my recollection is that it is a sliding scale (OK up to a fairly low ceiling, but still not an exactly flat rate). I do recall that the rate was halved a few years ago and I'm half sure the top rate is now 4% - I do remember that if you have an Agreement of Sale (or Power of Attorney to sell &c.) you pay 1% on that which is knocked of the duty on the Sale Deeds.
AndyD 8-)#
Jun 13th 2007, 1:20 am
#199
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: On the yellow brick road between UK - India
Posts: 406
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Hi,
I don't think that calculator is accurate/ up-to-date; it shows a flat 8% for property in Goa where my recollection is that it is a sliding scale (OK up to a fairly low ceiling, but still not an exactly flat rate). I do recall that the rate was halved a few years ago and I'm half sure the top rate is now 4% - I do remember that if you have an Agreement of Sale (or Power of Attorney to sell &c.) you pay 1% on that which is knocked of the duty on the Sale Deeds.
AndyD 8-)#
I don't think that calculator is accurate/ up-to-date; it shows a flat 8% for property in Goa where my recollection is that it is a sliding scale (OK up to a fairly low ceiling, but still not an exactly flat rate). I do recall that the rate was halved a few years ago and I'm half sure the top rate is now 4% - I do remember that if you have an Agreement of Sale (or Power of Attorney to sell &c.) you pay 1% on that which is knocked of the duty on the Sale Deeds.
AndyD 8-)#
Cheers - TDK
Jun 13th 2007, 1:29 am
#200
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: On the yellow brick road between UK - India
Posts: 406
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Hi TDK,
Stamp duty on registration of a sale deed is at 2% of the consideration and registration fee is 4 % .
Stamp duty on registration of an agreement to sale is 1%, thats why i asked you for details of the stamps on the document in order to identify it. You appear to have had it notarised rather than registered with the collector.
The agreement you have signed has now been clearly identified and we are in a position to proceed with the advice.
Unfortunately you seem to have tired of the exercise, the three year lock in is not applicable in the solution to your case.
regards
douglas
Stamp duty on registration of a sale deed is at 2% of the consideration and registration fee is 4 % .
Stamp duty on registration of an agreement to sale is 1%, thats why i asked you for details of the stamps on the document in order to identify it. You appear to have had it notarised rather than registered with the collector.
The agreement you have signed has now been clearly identified and we are in a position to proceed with the advice.
Unfortunately you seem to have tired of the exercise, the three year lock in is not applicable in the solution to your case.
regards
douglas
Cheers and all the best - TDK
Jun 15th 2007, 4:00 pm
#201
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 701
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Fn experiences with property purchases confirms one thing: that confusion reigns over the law, and real estate sale procedures.
that so many different lawyers have different interpretations of the processes involved, same with bankers, civil servants, municipal employees and the local panchyats, there may be grounds for a positive (different?) take on things.
could it be, that because Goa has five centuries of Portuguese legal history, that Goans today do not have expertise in Indian law or rules generated by Delhi which is traditionally regarded as a distant bureaucracy?
Now that Delhi millionaires have cottoned onto Goa's natural assets, federal institutions are imposing and enforcing rules which really have never ever been generated from within the State of Goa.
that so many different lawyers have different interpretations of the processes involved, same with bankers, civil servants, municipal employees and the local panchyats, there may be grounds for a positive (different?) take on things.
could it be, that because Goa has five centuries of Portuguese legal history, that Goans today do not have expertise in Indian law or rules generated by Delhi which is traditionally regarded as a distant bureaucracy?
Now that Delhi millionaires have cottoned onto Goa's natural assets, federal institutions are imposing and enforcing rules which really have never ever been generated from within the State of Goa.
Jun 15th 2007, 7:23 pm
#202
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 863
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Fn experiences with property purchases confirms one thing: that confusion reigns over the law, and real estate sale procedures.
that so many different lawyers have different interpretations of the processes involved, same with bankers, civil servants, municipal employees and the local panchyats, there may be grounds for a positive (different?) take on things.
could it be, that because Goa has five centuries of Portuguese legal history, that Goans today do not have expertise in Indian law or rules generated by Delhi which is traditionally regarded as a distant bureaucracy?
Now that Delhi millionaires have cottoned onto Goa's natural assets, federal institutions are imposing and enforcing rules which really have never ever been generated from within the State of Goa.
that so many different lawyers have different interpretations of the processes involved, same with bankers, civil servants, municipal employees and the local panchyats, there may be grounds for a positive (different?) take on things.
could it be, that because Goa has five centuries of Portuguese legal history, that Goans today do not have expertise in Indian law or rules generated by Delhi which is traditionally regarded as a distant bureaucracy?
Now that Delhi millionaires have cottoned onto Goa's natural assets, federal institutions are imposing and enforcing rules which really have never ever been generated from within the State of Goa.
There is disfunctionality in goa and some resentment of central govt, but that tends to vary in its application, depending on the vested interest of the person concerned.
I dont find things confusing at all and have difficulty in undestanding why FNs cant just read a few paras from FEMA , in addition to sensing the mood of both the goan and central govt on this issue.
Perhaps i have the gift of objectivity, a flair for removing the emotion and the superfluous from a situation and identifying and dealing with the real issues.
Having said that, even if FNs arent capable of the above, surely they can understand the diagnosis and interpretation of others laid out in simple format as below.
Q - Can a non resident FN buy immovable property in goa?
A - No
I am simply quoting FEMa here.
regards
douglas
Jun 15th 2007, 8:38 pm
#203
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,685
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Hi wheatsheaf,
There is disfunctionality in goa and some resentment of central govt, but that tends to vary in its application, depending on the vested interest of the person concerned.
I dont find things confusing at all and have difficulty in undestanding why FNs cant just read a few paras from FEMA , in addition to sensing the mood of both the goan and central govt on this issue.
Perhaps i have the gift of objectivity, a flair for removing the emotion and the superfluous from a situation and identifying and dealing with the real issues.
Having said that, even if FNs arent capable of the above, surely they can understand the diagnosis and interpretation of others laid out in simple format as below.
Q - Can a non resident FN buy immovable property in goa?
A - No
I am simply quoting FEMa here.
regards
douglas
There is disfunctionality in goa and some resentment of central govt, but that tends to vary in its application, depending on the vested interest of the person concerned.
I dont find things confusing at all and have difficulty in undestanding why FNs cant just read a few paras from FEMA , in addition to sensing the mood of both the goan and central govt on this issue.
Perhaps i have the gift of objectivity, a flair for removing the emotion and the superfluous from a situation and identifying and dealing with the real issues.
Having said that, even if FNs arent capable of the above, surely they can understand the diagnosis and interpretation of others laid out in simple format as below.
Q - Can a non resident FN buy immovable property in goa?
A - No
I am simply quoting FEMa here.
regards
douglas
Why do people keep saying that the law is confusing when it clearly says on FEMA and as i have previously quoted on RBI that FNs cannot buy immovable property in India? What is confusing about this?
Why wont people believe this?
The Indian Government cant really be to blame when they have it in black and white all over the bloody place.
All FNs can do is lease a property for a maximum of 5 years...it says so.
Now Developers and Estate Agents and FNs are trying to find and create loopholes but a majority of them willingly or not have broken the law.
True or False?
Douglas if they wont listen to you or me will they not read it for themselves.....as it is written on FEMA and RBI.
Kind Regards,
Remy
Jun 15th 2007, 8:57 pm
#204
Joined: May 2007
Location: Noni the Indian Goan Beach Mulberry
Posts: 8,227
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Hi Douglas,
Why do people keep saying that the law is confusing when it clearly says on FEMA and as i have previously quoted on RBI that FNs cannot buy immovable property in India? What is confusing about this?
Why wont people believe this?
The Indian Government cant really be to blame when they have it in black and white all over the bloody place.
All FNs can do is lease a property for a maximum of 5 years...it says so.
Now Developers and Estate Agents and FNs are trying to find and create loopholes but a majority of them willingly or not have broken the law.
True or False?
Douglas if they wont listen to you or me will they not read it for themselves.....as it is written on FEMA and RBI.
Kind Regards,
Remy
Why do people keep saying that the law is confusing when it clearly says on FEMA and as i have previously quoted on RBI that FNs cannot buy immovable property in India? What is confusing about this?
Why wont people believe this?
The Indian Government cant really be to blame when they have it in black and white all over the bloody place.
All FNs can do is lease a property for a maximum of 5 years...it says so.
Now Developers and Estate Agents and FNs are trying to find and create loopholes but a majority of them willingly or not have broken the law.
True or False?
Douglas if they wont listen to you or me will they not read it for themselves.....as it is written on FEMA and RBI.
Kind Regards,
Remy
Hi RemyI see what you are saying it is printed in black and white. We were stupid and did not see any of this when we "BOUGHT" - BUT why did the Bank Accept our money from the UK when it was clearly stated it was for property purchase, and why was the Indian Government, letting literally hundreds of people purchase over in Goa - they must have know what is going on, and it is still going on. What will happen to us who have the "Freehold".
I thought to-day was going to be better for me than all the accidents of yesterday, (I did think it was Friday 13th) but at least the bank has sent a huge bouquet of flowers in a vase to say sorry. Do you think the Indian Goverment will send Noni a letter and say everything is o.k.
Jun 15th 2007, 9:16 pm
#205
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,685
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Hi RemyI see what you are saying it is printed in black and white. We were stupid and did not see any of this when we "BOUGHT" - BUT why did the Bank Accept our money from the UK when it was clearly stated it was for property purchase, and why was the Indian Government, letting literally hundreds of people purchase over in Goa - they must have know what is going on, and it is still going on. What will happen to us who have the "Freehold".
I thought to-day was going to be better for me than all the accidents of yesterday, (I did think it was Friday 13th) but at least the bank has sent a huge bouquet of flowers in a vase to say sorry. Do you think the Indian Goverment will send Noni a letter and say everything is o.k.
Sorry but if you remitt money to any bank any where in the world for property purchase they will accept it and assume that you are acting fully within the countries regulations. Its not the banks job to check you are acting to the letter of the law.....its yours!
A lot of people have bought in India illegally and done so ignoring both FEMA and RBI Law by trying to set up bogus companies etc etc etc.......
Now this is why the Indian government is tightening up on x visas and business visas and considering reducing a tourist visa to 3 months. They are also currently investigating FNs who have bought property to see wether the transactions are legal or not. Most are actually legal as most have not bought property as they thought BUT A 5 YEAR LEASE.....in laymans terms 'they have been ripped off'.
When the investigations are finally over people like yourself who already have freehold may or maynot be ok...I dont know.. but what i do know is that anyone else who now knows all this and chooses to ignore it and go ahead and buy property are in my opinion NUTS.
Regards and no offence intended,
Remy
Jun 15th 2007, 9:34 pm
#206
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,685
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Hi RemyI see what you are saying it is printed in black and white. We were stupid and did not see any of this when we "BOUGHT" - BUT why did the Bank Accept our money from the UK when it was clearly stated it was for property purchase, and why was the Indian Government, letting literally hundreds of people purchase over in Goa - they must have know what is going on, and it is still going on. What will happen to us who have the "Freehold".
I thought to-day was going to be better for me than all the accidents of yesterday, (I did think it was Friday 13th) but at least the bank has sent a huge bouquet of flowers in a vase to say sorry. Do you think the Indian Goverment will send Noni a letter and say everything is o.k.
BTW, i would also like to say for the record that Indian government restrictions on FNs buying property in Goa is something i dont agree with.
Regards,
Remy
Jun 16th 2007, 12:13 am
#207
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 863
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Hi Douglas,
Why do people keep saying that the law is confusing when it clearly says on FEMA and as i have previously quoted on RBI that FNs cannot buy immovable property in India? What is confusing about this?
Why wont people believe this?
The Indian Government cant really be to blame when they have it in black and white all over the bloody place.
All FNs can do is lease a property for a maximum of 5 years...it says so.
Now Developers and Estate Agents and FNs are trying to find and create loopholes but a majority of them willingly or not have broken the law.
True or False?
Douglas if they wont listen to you or me will they not read it for themselves.....as it is written on FEMA and RBI.
Kind Regards,
Remy
Why do people keep saying that the law is confusing when it clearly says on FEMA and as i have previously quoted on RBI that FNs cannot buy immovable property in India? What is confusing about this?
Why wont people believe this?
The Indian Government cant really be to blame when they have it in black and white all over the bloody place.
All FNs can do is lease a property for a maximum of 5 years...it says so.
Now Developers and Estate Agents and FNs are trying to find and create loopholes but a majority of them willingly or not have broken the law.
True or False?
Douglas if they wont listen to you or me will they not read it for themselves.....as it is written on FEMA and RBI.
Kind Regards,
Remy
Ref your second para on who is to blame.
Speaking as a FN directly affected by the recent debacle and considering firstly the working practices of HCI london in the past and then the current situation, this is how i see it.
Looking at my own case objectively, i can only conclude that neither the indian or the goan govt are to blame for the situation i find myself in, I am.
Having said that, they could have been more transparent in their dealings whilst i was there and more considerate and sensitive about my exclusion.
Going back to 2004 now, i did my homework and discovered that it was clearly expressed in FEMA that a resident FN could buy immovable property in goa.
I also found out that they had a history of issuing x visas at HCI london to FNs, for the purpose of complying with the residency rules, thus enabling FNs to buy in goa.
So, it was clearly expressed in Fema that i could do what i wanted to do ie buy property there providing i qualified as a resident and by issuing a renewable and extendable visa in 05, they implied that i was welcome to buy in india and that they would extend and renew my visa providing my conduct was acceptable.
It was therefore reasonable to assume on the evidence available at the time, that i could continue to live in the house that i was in the process of buying.
Interestingly, when my wife and i originally made the decision to buy,( sitting at the kitchen table in morjim) we set a limit on how much we would invest, (as i had clearly identified the various risks involved, including exclusion of FNs at a future date). My wife agreed to that (although we did later go over budget on the restoration) i also correctly identified the method they would probably use to exclude FNs ie the visa system, if they did decided to exclude. My wife thought that was a preposterous conclusion.
I did miscalculate the potential time scale however, i thought our stay may last 5 to 10 years and i also miscalculated the exclusion probability factor, i gave the probability of exclusion 2 out of 10 instead of 10 out of 10. At that time (2004/5) there was little evidence of the wave of FNs Nris and pios that were to later to arrive on their shores in droves, clutching a cheque book.
As a result of the behavior of a few and the sheer volume of applicants to buy, the govt subsequently changed their policy and working practices around august 2006. However, they didnt make that policy change clear , other than by changing their working practices.
As a result any FN buying or attempting to buy before august 06 is a victim of circumstances. Any Fn buying or attempting to buy between say august 06 and say dec 06 has some excuse, as it takes time for realisation to set in and opinions to harden. Any FN attempting to buy after say jan 07 is deluded.
Looking at the goan situation from afar now, i dont think the indian govt could have done anything else in 06 , but they could have been more open about it.
Given the massive amount of denial and sense of entitlement continuing to be expressed by FNs, i cant see them relaxing the situation as many hope. Reality checks required all around.
regards
douglas
Jun 16th 2007, 2:42 am
#208
Joined: May 2007
Location: Noni the Indian Goan Beach Mulberry
Posts: 8,227
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Hi Remy,
Ref your second para on who is to blame.
Speaking as a FN directly affected by the recent debacle and considering firstly the working practices of HCI london in the past and then the current situation, this is how i see it.
Looking at my own case objectively, i can only conclude that neither the indian or the goan govt are to blame for the situation i find myself in, I am.
Having said that, they could have been more transparent in their dealings whilst i was there and more considerate and sensitive about my exclusion.
Going back to 2004 now, i did my homework and discovered that it was clearly expressed in FEMA that a resident FN could buy immovable property in goa.
I also found out that they had a history of issuing x visas at HCI london to FNs, for the purpose of complying with the residency rules, thus enabling FNs to buy in goa.
So, it was clearly expressed in Fema that i could do what i wanted to do ie buy property there providing i qualified as a resident and by issuing a renewable and extendable visa in 05, they implied that i was welcome to buy in india and that they would extend and renew my visa providing my conduct was acceptable.
It was therefore reasonable to assume on the evidence available at the time, that i could continue to live in the house that i was in the process of buying.
Interestingly, when my wife and i originally made the decision to buy,( sitting at the kitchen table in morjim) we set a limit on how much we would invest, (as i had clearly identified the various risks involved, including exclusion of FNs at a future date). My wife agreed to that (although we did later go over budget on the restoration) i also correctly identified the method they would probably use to exclude FNs ie the visa system, if they did decided to exclude. My wife thought that was a preposterous conclusion.
I did miscalculate the potential time scale however, i thought our stay may last 5 to 10 years and i also miscalculated the exclusion probability factor, i gave the probability of exclusion 2 out of 10 instead of 10 out of 10. At that time (2004/5) there was little evidence of the wave of FNs Nris and pios that were to later to arrive on their shores in droves, clutching a cheque book.
As a result of the behavior of a few and the sheer volume of applicants to buy, the govt subsequently changed their policy and working practices around august 2006. However, they didnt make that policy change clear , other than by changing their working practices.
As a result any FN buying or attempting to buy before august 06 is a victim of circumstances. Any Fn buying or attempting to buy between say august 06 and say dec 06 has some excuse, as it takes time for realisation to set in and opinions to harden. Any FN attempting to buy after say jan 07 is deluded.
Looking at the goan situation from afar now, i dont think the indian govt could have done anything else in 06 , but they could have been more open about it.
Given the massive amount of denial and sense of entitlement continuing to be expressed by FNs, i cant see them relaxing the situation as many hope. Reality checks required all around.
regards
douglas
Ref your second para on who is to blame.
Speaking as a FN directly affected by the recent debacle and considering firstly the working practices of HCI london in the past and then the current situation, this is how i see it.
Looking at my own case objectively, i can only conclude that neither the indian or the goan govt are to blame for the situation i find myself in, I am.
Having said that, they could have been more transparent in their dealings whilst i was there and more considerate and sensitive about my exclusion.
Going back to 2004 now, i did my homework and discovered that it was clearly expressed in FEMA that a resident FN could buy immovable property in goa.
I also found out that they had a history of issuing x visas at HCI london to FNs, for the purpose of complying with the residency rules, thus enabling FNs to buy in goa.
So, it was clearly expressed in Fema that i could do what i wanted to do ie buy property there providing i qualified as a resident and by issuing a renewable and extendable visa in 05, they implied that i was welcome to buy in india and that they would extend and renew my visa providing my conduct was acceptable.
It was therefore reasonable to assume on the evidence available at the time, that i could continue to live in the house that i was in the process of buying.
Interestingly, when my wife and i originally made the decision to buy,( sitting at the kitchen table in morjim) we set a limit on how much we would invest, (as i had clearly identified the various risks involved, including exclusion of FNs at a future date). My wife agreed to that (although we did later go over budget on the restoration) i also correctly identified the method they would probably use to exclude FNs ie the visa system, if they did decided to exclude. My wife thought that was a preposterous conclusion.
I did miscalculate the potential time scale however, i thought our stay may last 5 to 10 years and i also miscalculated the exclusion probability factor, i gave the probability of exclusion 2 out of 10 instead of 10 out of 10. At that time (2004/5) there was little evidence of the wave of FNs Nris and pios that were to later to arrive on their shores in droves, clutching a cheque book.
As a result of the behavior of a few and the sheer volume of applicants to buy, the govt subsequently changed their policy and working practices around august 2006. However, they didnt make that policy change clear , other than by changing their working practices.
As a result any FN buying or attempting to buy before august 06 is a victim of circumstances. Any Fn buying or attempting to buy between say august 06 and say dec 06 has some excuse, as it takes time for realisation to set in and opinions to harden. Any FN attempting to buy after say jan 07 is deluded.
Looking at the goan situation from afar now, i dont think the indian govt could have done anything else in 06 , but they could have been more open about it.
Given the massive amount of denial and sense of entitlement continuing to be expressed by FNs, i cant see them relaxing the situation as many hope. Reality checks required all around.
regards
douglas
Was it that bad in 2002?
Jun 16th 2007, 4:32 am
#209
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,685
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Hi Remy,
Ref your second para on who is to blame.
Speaking as a FN directly affected by the recent debacle and considering firstly the working practices of HCI london in the past and then the current situation, this is how i see it.
Looking at my own case objectively, i can only conclude that neither the indian or the goan govt are to blame for the situation i find myself in, I am.
Having said that, they could have been more transparent in their dealings whilst i was there and more considerate and sensitive about my exclusion.
Going back to 2004 now, i did my homework and discovered that it was clearly expressed in FEMA that a resident FN could buy immovable property in goa.
I also found out that they had a history of issuing x visas at HCI london to FNs, for the purpose of complying with the residency rules, thus enabling FNs to buy in goa.
So, it was clearly expressed in Fema that i could do what i wanted to do ie buy property there providing i qualified as a resident and by issuing a renewable and extendable visa in 05, they implied that i was welcome to buy in india and that they would extend and renew my visa providing my conduct was acceptable.
It was therefore reasonable to assume on the evidence available at the time, that i could continue to live in the house that i was in the process of buying.
Interestingly, when my wife and i originally made the decision to buy,( sitting at the kitchen table in morjim) we set a limit on how much we would invest, (as i had clearly identified the various risks involved, including exclusion of FNs at a future date). My wife agreed to that (although we did later go over budget on the restoration) i also correctly identified the method they would probably use to exclude FNs ie the visa system, if they did decided to exclude. My wife thought that was a preposterous conclusion.
I did miscalculate the potential time scale however, i thought our stay may last 5 to 10 years and i also miscalculated the exclusion probability factor, i gave the probability of exclusion 2 out of 10 instead of 10 out of 10. At that time (2004/5) there was little evidence of the wave of FNs Nris and pios that were to later to arrive on their shores in droves, clutching a cheque book.
As a result of the behavior of a few and the sheer volume of applicants to buy, the govt subsequently changed their policy and working practices around august 2006. However, they didnt make that policy change clear , other than by changing their working practices.
As a result any FN buying or attempting to buy before august 06 is a victim of circumstances. Any Fn buying or attempting to buy between say august 06 and say dec 06 has some excuse, as it takes time for realisation to set in and opinions to harden. Any FN attempting to buy after say jan 07 is deluded.
Looking at the goan situation from afar now, i dont think the indian govt could have done anything else in 06 , but they could have been more open about it.
Given the massive amount of denial and sense of entitlement continuing to be expressed by FNs, i cant see them relaxing the situation as many hope. Reality checks required all around.
regards
douglas
Ref your second para on who is to blame.
Speaking as a FN directly affected by the recent debacle and considering firstly the working practices of HCI london in the past and then the current situation, this is how i see it.
Looking at my own case objectively, i can only conclude that neither the indian or the goan govt are to blame for the situation i find myself in, I am.
Having said that, they could have been more transparent in their dealings whilst i was there and more considerate and sensitive about my exclusion.
Going back to 2004 now, i did my homework and discovered that it was clearly expressed in FEMA that a resident FN could buy immovable property in goa.
I also found out that they had a history of issuing x visas at HCI london to FNs, for the purpose of complying with the residency rules, thus enabling FNs to buy in goa.
So, it was clearly expressed in Fema that i could do what i wanted to do ie buy property there providing i qualified as a resident and by issuing a renewable and extendable visa in 05, they implied that i was welcome to buy in india and that they would extend and renew my visa providing my conduct was acceptable.
It was therefore reasonable to assume on the evidence available at the time, that i could continue to live in the house that i was in the process of buying.
Interestingly, when my wife and i originally made the decision to buy,( sitting at the kitchen table in morjim) we set a limit on how much we would invest, (as i had clearly identified the various risks involved, including exclusion of FNs at a future date). My wife agreed to that (although we did later go over budget on the restoration) i also correctly identified the method they would probably use to exclude FNs ie the visa system, if they did decided to exclude. My wife thought that was a preposterous conclusion.
I did miscalculate the potential time scale however, i thought our stay may last 5 to 10 years and i also miscalculated the exclusion probability factor, i gave the probability of exclusion 2 out of 10 instead of 10 out of 10. At that time (2004/5) there was little evidence of the wave of FNs Nris and pios that were to later to arrive on their shores in droves, clutching a cheque book.
As a result of the behavior of a few and the sheer volume of applicants to buy, the govt subsequently changed their policy and working practices around august 2006. However, they didnt make that policy change clear , other than by changing their working practices.
As a result any FN buying or attempting to buy before august 06 is a victim of circumstances. Any Fn buying or attempting to buy between say august 06 and say dec 06 has some excuse, as it takes time for realisation to set in and opinions to harden. Any FN attempting to buy after say jan 07 is deluded.
Looking at the goan situation from afar now, i dont think the indian govt could have done anything else in 06 , but they could have been more open about it.
Given the massive amount of denial and sense of entitlement continuing to be expressed by FNs, i cant see them relaxing the situation as many hope. Reality checks required all around.
regards
douglas
Yes I agree with all you have said here.......and yes there should have been greater transparency. What i cant for the life of me understand is why any FN knowing what we all know now, would still part with tens of thousands of pounds for property that there not going to own and have restricted access to. I also think when the dust settles and the smoke clears people who have Freehold like you and Noni will at worst be allowed to sell and redeem your initial investment. i
Jun 16th 2007, 4:40 am
#210
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,685
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Hi Remy,
Ref your second para on who is to blame.
Speaking as a FN directly affected by the recent debacle and considering firstly the working practices of HCI london in the past and then the current situation, this is how i see it.
Looking at my own case objectively, i can only conclude that neither the indian or the goan govt are to blame for the situation i find myself in, I am.
Having said that, they could have been more transparent in their dealings whilst i was there and more considerate and sensitive about my exclusion.
Going back to 2004 now, i did my homework and discovered that it was clearly expressed in FEMA that a resident FN could buy immovable property in goa.
I also found out that they had a history of issuing x visas at HCI london to FNs, for the purpose of complying with the residency rules, thus enabling FNs to buy in goa.
So, it was clearly expressed in Fema that i could do what i wanted to do ie buy property there providing i qualified as a resident and by issuing a renewable and extendable visa in 05, they implied that i was welcome to buy in india and that they would extend and renew my visa providing my conduct was acceptable.
It was therefore reasonable to assume on the evidence available at the time, that i could continue to live in the house that i was in the process of buying.
Interestingly, when my wife and i originally made the decision to buy,( sitting at the kitchen table in morjim) we set a limit on how much we would invest, (as i had clearly identified the various risks involved, including exclusion of FNs at a future date). My wife agreed to that (although we did later go over budget on the restoration) i also correctly identified the method they would probably use to exclude FNs ie the visa system, if they did decided to exclude. My wife thought that was a preposterous conclusion.
I did miscalculate the potential time scale however, i thought our stay may last 5 to 10 years and i also miscalculated the exclusion probability factor, i gave the probability of exclusion 2 out of 10 instead of 10 out of 10. At that time (2004/5) there was little evidence of the wave of FNs Nris and pios that were to later to arrive on their shores in droves, clutching a cheque book.
As a result of the behavior of a few and the sheer volume of applicants to buy, the govt subsequently changed their policy and working practices around august 2006. However, they didnt make that policy change clear , other than by changing their working practices.
As a result any FN buying or attempting to buy before august 06 is a victim of circumstances. Any Fn buying or attempting to buy between say august 06 and say dec 06 has some excuse, as it takes time for realisation to set in and opinions to harden. Any FN attempting to buy after say jan 07 is deluded.
Looking at the goan situation from afar now, i dont think the indian govt could have done anything else in 06 , but they could have been more open about it.
Given the massive amount of denial and sense of entitlement continuing to be expressed by FNs, i cant see them relaxing the situation as many hope. Reality checks required all around.
regards
douglas
Ref your second para on who is to blame.
Speaking as a FN directly affected by the recent debacle and considering firstly the working practices of HCI london in the past and then the current situation, this is how i see it.
Looking at my own case objectively, i can only conclude that neither the indian or the goan govt are to blame for the situation i find myself in, I am.
Having said that, they could have been more transparent in their dealings whilst i was there and more considerate and sensitive about my exclusion.
Going back to 2004 now, i did my homework and discovered that it was clearly expressed in FEMA that a resident FN could buy immovable property in goa.
I also found out that they had a history of issuing x visas at HCI london to FNs, for the purpose of complying with the residency rules, thus enabling FNs to buy in goa.
So, it was clearly expressed in Fema that i could do what i wanted to do ie buy property there providing i qualified as a resident and by issuing a renewable and extendable visa in 05, they implied that i was welcome to buy in india and that they would extend and renew my visa providing my conduct was acceptable.
It was therefore reasonable to assume on the evidence available at the time, that i could continue to live in the house that i was in the process of buying.
Interestingly, when my wife and i originally made the decision to buy,( sitting at the kitchen table in morjim) we set a limit on how much we would invest, (as i had clearly identified the various risks involved, including exclusion of FNs at a future date). My wife agreed to that (although we did later go over budget on the restoration) i also correctly identified the method they would probably use to exclude FNs ie the visa system, if they did decided to exclude. My wife thought that was a preposterous conclusion.
I did miscalculate the potential time scale however, i thought our stay may last 5 to 10 years and i also miscalculated the exclusion probability factor, i gave the probability of exclusion 2 out of 10 instead of 10 out of 10. At that time (2004/5) there was little evidence of the wave of FNs Nris and pios that were to later to arrive on their shores in droves, clutching a cheque book.
As a result of the behavior of a few and the sheer volume of applicants to buy, the govt subsequently changed their policy and working practices around august 2006. However, they didnt make that policy change clear , other than by changing their working practices.
As a result any FN buying or attempting to buy before august 06 is a victim of circumstances. Any Fn buying or attempting to buy between say august 06 and say dec 06 has some excuse, as it takes time for realisation to set in and opinions to harden. Any FN attempting to buy after say jan 07 is deluded.
Looking at the goan situation from afar now, i dont think the indian govt could have done anything else in 06 , but they could have been more open about it.
Given the massive amount of denial and sense of entitlement continuing to be expressed by FNs, i cant see them relaxing the situation as many hope. Reality checks required all around.
regards
douglas
I agree there should have been more transparency.
I also think when the dust settles and the smoke clears that people like you and Noni who have Freehold will at worst be allowed to sell and recoup your initial investment.
But for those FNs that are purchasing now after knowing all this.......well what can you say?
Regards,
Remy
Thought id lost the first post,thats why i have repeated myself....sorry.
Last edited by Remy-Ireland; Jun 16th 2007 at 4:45 am. Reason: Error in transmission
