|
Re: Acron Homes
Jeez, what a thread! I've read all 46 pages and I've never even been to Goa. It certainly puts the problems you have in Sri Lanka into perspective.
Some thoughts do strike me. The first is that the notorious slowness of the Indian judicial system actually works in favour of those who were under the impression they were buying legally and registered their freehold at the land registry. There is I believe such a thing as judicial review in India and indeed it is always cited as one of the reasons roads never get built because government expropriations get bogged down in the courts. Douglas M seems to have decided he won't get a tourist visa without putting it to the test. This attitude is quite common amongst expats who finally decide they have had enough, but perhaps he should consider applying for one so that he can keep his property under control. The suggestion that if you lose residence you can't sell seems bizarre to me; has anybody any judicial case history on this. Babu 1 seems to have the best idea. His attitude is the same as mine; there's nothing more expensive than a cheap lawyer so get a bloody good one. Like Douglas I am amused by the happy acronites. They may be right and the company might decide it would be better to refund them than lose reputation and possibly face fraud charges by defaulting, but I would certainly be a little worried about paying freehold price for a five year lease and a wing and a prayer. The five year lease is worth more than Douglas suggests (it should be valued at the rental value for five years), but is certainly worth little, and Acron directors who roll over the lease would be liable to action from their shareholders. I would have thought the temptation to sell off the freeholds would be considerable. With regard to Keith's statement: Meantime,I'm off to Northern Cyprus to sort my new apartment out there,same price as Goa but much less hassle and I OWN IT !!!!!! I hate to rain on his parade but up to 90% of the properties in Northern Cyprus were owned by Greek Cypriots who fled to the South. There have been cases where the old owners have returned and started legal proceedings to reclaim their house. He may have confidence in what the Turkish Cypriot government says but should bear in mind that the only country that recognizes it is Turkey. |
Re: Acron Homes
Originally Posted by stevejones123
(Post 5274408)
Jeez, what a thread! I've read all 46 pages and I've never even been to Goa. It certainly puts the problems you have in Sri Lanka into perspective.
Some thoughts do strike me. The first is that the notorious slowness of the Indian judicial system actually works in favour of those who were under the impression they were buying legally and registered their freehold at the land registry. There is I believe such a thing as judicial review in India and indeed it is always cited as one of the reasons roads never get built because government expropriations get bogged down in the courts. Douglas M seems to have decided he won't get a tourist visa without putting it to the test. This attitude is quite common amongst expats who finally decide they have had enough, but perhaps he should consider applying for one so that he can keep his property under control. The suggestion that if you lose residence you can't sell seems bizarre to me; has anybody any judicial case history on this. Babu 1 seems to have the best idea. His attitude is the same as mine; there's nothing more expensive than a cheap lawyer so get a bloody good one. Like Douglas I am amused by the happy acronites. They may be right and the company might decide it would be better to refund them than lose reputation and possibly face fraud charges by defaulting, but I would certainly be a little worried about paying freehold price for a five year lease and a wing and a prayer. The five year lease is worth more than Douglas suggests (it should be valued at the rental value for five years), but is certainly worth little, and Acron directors who roll over the lease would be liable to action from their shareholders. I would have thought the temptation to sell off the freeholds would be considerable. With regard to Keith's statement: Meantime,I'm off to Northern Cyprus to sort my new apartment out there,same price as Goa but much less hassle and I OWN IT !!!!!! I hate to rain on his parade but up to 90% of the properties in Northern Cyprus were owned by Greek Cypriots who fled to the South. There have been cases where the old owners have returned and started legal proceedings to reclaim their house. He may have confidence in what the Turkish Cypriot government says but should bear in mind that the only country that recognizes it is Turkey. OMG you read all 46 pages..........you need a noffi and a medal.:rofl: Seriously though, Welcome to the Forum and thanks for your input.:thumbsup: BTW I agree with most of what you have said in your post. Regards, Remy |
Re: Acron Homes
Originally Posted by Remy-Ireland
(Post 5275541)
Hi Steve,
OMG you read all 46 pages..........you need a noffi and a medal.:rofl: Seriously though, Welcome to the Forum and thanks for your input.:thumbsup: BTW I agree with most of what you have said in your post. Regards, Remy Have you "bought"? Poor Keith, I forgot all about the programme I saw on TV about buying property in North Cyprus - too wrapped up in Goa Probs. Keith mate - are you sure this time you are o.k. :eek: :p: sneaky: noni |
Re: Acron Homes
Originally Posted by noni
(Post 5275724)
Hi Steve and welcome :thumbsup:
Have you "bought"? Poor Keith, I forgot all about the programme I saw on TV about buying property in North Cyprus - too wrapped up in Goa Probs. Keith mate - are you sure this time you are o.k. :eek: :p: sneaky: noni As you may have read I am one of the cold feet brigade who was buying in D'Costa Palms through Churchills. I have currently paid over £12K as deposit. Churchills are in the process of remarketting my apartment to refund my deposit. I am cynical as the development is off plan and as there is nothing to sell, I just want my money back out of the pot. My worry is that it may never sell and there is little I can do.......... unless you know otherwise? Anybody heard from Douglas recently? Hi to all dickylewis |
Re: Acron Homes
Originally Posted by dickylewis
(Post 5275756)
Hi Steve and again welcome
As you may have read I am one of the cold feet brigade who was buying in D'Costa Palms through Churchills. I have currently paid over £12K as deposit. Churchills are in the process of remarketting my apartment to refund my deposit. I am cynical as the development is off plan and as there is nothing to sell, I just want my money back out of the pot. My worry is that it may never sell and there is little I can do.......... unless you know otherwise? Anybody heard from Douglas recently? Hi to all dickylewis Douglas is on holiday, and thinking of moving to another part of Malaysia. Think he has given up - hope not as some of his threads were hysterical. Nice to hear from you again. :wub: |
Re: Acron Homes
Have you "bought"? The Thai property forum is quite fun. The best are the fireworks when people suggest property prices for high-end condos are going to fall, and those that own them start throwing out insults about how the other posters are just envious because they will never have the money to buy a high end condo and had better run off and tether their buffalo before it runs away. At least it tells you how lucky you are not to live in a high-end condo next to such an obnoxious set of neighbours (you'd probably end up in jail after throwing them out of the penthouse window down to the nice water view they have below). |
Re: Acron Homes
Originally Posted by stevejones123
(Post 5277027)
I own land and a nearly completed house in Sri Lanka. As there are no Sri Lankan property forums I sometimes come and read the Thai property forum and now the Indian ones to get ideas and pass the time.
The Thai property forum is quite fun. The best are the fireworks when people suggest property prices for high-end condos are going to fall, and those that own them start throwing out insults about how the other posters are just envious because they will never have the money to buy a high end condo and had better run off and tether their buffalo before it runs away. At least it tells you how lucky you are not to live in a high-end condo next to such an obnoxious set of neighbours (you'd probably end up in jail after throwing them out of the penthouse window down to the nice water view they have below). Well join in and have a laugh - we get insults as well, and before you ask and google it 'noffi - is smirnoff vodka. Sometimes we have fun with the Acronites - but at the end of the day we are all in the same boat, deep in the S*** but going back to Goa because we love it, and our Apartments/Villas. :rofl: Noni |
Re: Acron Homes
Originally Posted by stevejones123
(Post 5277027)
I own land and a nearly completed house in Sri Lanka. As there are no Sri Lankan property forums I sometimes come and read the Thai property forum and now the Indian ones to get ideas and pass the time.
The Thai property forum is quite fun. The best are the fireworks when people suggest property prices for high-end condos are going to fall, and those that own them start throwing out insults about how the other posters are just envious because they will never have the money to buy a high end condo and had better run off and tether their buffalo before it runs away. At least it tells you how lucky you are not to live in a high-end condo next to such an obnoxious set of neighbours (you'd probably end up in jail after throwing them out of the penthouse window down to the nice water view they have below). & Welcome to the site! :thumbsup: & its good to hear your perspective on the Goan saga! Out of interest, how easy is it for FNs (of non Sri Lankan origin) to purchase property in Sri Lanka/to get residential status/visas etc? If its anything like India i'll avoid it like the plague, but i just thought it might be worth me considering it as a possible plan B (once i've got out of the fine mess i've got myself into in Goa)!:lol: I've never visited Sri Lanka but it sounds lovely from what i hear (apart from the political problems etc)! Kind regards, TDK |
Re: Acron Homes
Foreigners have always been able to buy freehold in Sri Lanka. No visa is necessary. However in order to stop foreign ownership of agricultural land the government imposed a 100% surcharge on all purchases by foreign nationals, which effectively wipes out any chance of making a profit, or even breaking even on the transaction.
The UNP government abolished this tax at the end of 2002 and so I bought the land to build the house in 2003. There is as much anti-white racist rhetoric amongst certain elements of the Sri Lankan polity as in Goa, and the papers were carrying sob-stories of poor fishermen expelled from their houses in the coast so that foreigners could build luxury houses with swimming pools, and the usual rubbish (the number of foreigners who bought was minuscule and in many cases they were buying houses that belonged to Lankans that had either gone abroad or were living in Colombo and had no use for the house). The killer came in Galle, and you got very much the situation you get in Goa. Galle Fort is a 17th century construction and a world heritage site. Inside the walls of the fort there are around 1600 houses, most in very poor condition. British expats, particularly those working in the financial sector in Hong Kong, noticed this and there was a massive property boom, and westerners bought around 25% of the houses in the Fort, refurbishing them at considerable expense, and often turning them into restaurants, or guest houses. There was the usual rabble rousing from a small number of envious Sinhalese (who also no doubt were hoping to get some easy pickings) who formed an association to defend the Fort, and filled the newspapers with stories of foreigners opening liquor dens and other hubs of vice. As in most cases these were upmarket restaurnants for your blue-rinse retired WI member from Tunbridge Wells to sit in and sip a dry white while waiting for the first course, the accusations were as unfair as they were hilarious but in the end they had effect. The interesting thing is that although Galle Fort is predominantly Moslem, most of the opposition came from Sinhalese chauvinists. In 2004 the President dissolved Parliament and her party, the PA, defeated the outgoing government fighting on a Sinhala nationalist ticket. One of the things it did was to ally itself with a party of extremist Buddhist monks the JHU, and in return for their votes the PA government agreed to reintroduce the 100% surcharge by way of an urgent law. To pass an urgent law the government had to get the permission of the Supreme Court, so there was quite fun when this suddenly happened. The government had decided to get rid of the Company route to buying property (which was one of the two preferred ways to avoid the surcharge; the other being to register in a Sri Lankan's name but have a mortage or loan for more than the value of the house as a guarantee). The problem was that the foreign companies that would be prevented from buying property included the National Telephone Company, the main Mobile phone provider, the National Airline, the Cooking Gas provider, the only company licensed to make wheat flour, the second biggest gas station licensee (the Indian Oil Company) and a slew of others. Accordingly this provision was dropped so that essentially the situation is the same as in 2001, where a foreigner can avoid the payment by forming a company, or use other underhand means). There is also the fact that a foreigner can lease a property on a 99 year lease without paying any surcharge. And of course the surcharge is on the land, so if you buy bare land and then build you will only be paying a small proportion of the value of the house in surcharge. So the situation regarding owning property is much better than India (or indeed Thailand). However the situation with visas is uncertain. You get a 30 day visa free of charge at the airport. You can then extend that visit visa for another two months at a charge of $42 (if British; the cost depends on what your country of origin charges Sri Lankans). Indeed you are supposed to have that option at the airport but nobody offers it. Before you could get a nine month visa at a cost of $150, but the government took that option away when they theoretically allowed three month visas at the airport (the reason being I believe that it was exploited by Pakistanis and Indians who were working illegally). Unlike what some people think you can apply for a second extension without having to leave the country, though obviously whether it is granted or not depends on the particular immigration officer (though I have found them uniformly friendly under both governments). The problem with Sri Lanka is that there is only one way to get into the country; on the other hand there is no sign of them wishing to discourage long-term visitors, and the possibility of nipping over to India for a couple of months is hardly the end of the world, and likely to be the worse scenario. I would not advise you to buy at present. Apart from anything else the country is in the middle of a civil war, and I am expecting the rupee to sink against the dollar in the next few months because the US inflation rate is around 3% and the Lankan around 18%. There is also the question of why would you want to buy property in a place you have never been to, and where you know nobody. It seems like much too much hassle, and even in the best circumstances likely to lead to grief. As you are only 35 years old, my advice is, if you want to try out Lanka, come and stay in a hotel the first couple of times, and then if you think you will be spending a few months here every year, rent out somewhere on a three year lease. There are plenty of houses Lankans living abroad would be prepared to rent out, and if you wanted a house for a shorter period, there is even more choice as there are lots of Lankans living abroad with houses here they would like to rent when they are not in residence. And if you do want to buy somewhere tropical, think of getting a condominium in Thailand. My ex-employer in Saudi, and a very good friend, sold his company and retired to Thailand a couple of years ago. He had spent the last twenty years holidaying in Goa. His comment was that he had wanted to retire for some years but it was only when he experienced Thailand that he decided it was time. Anyway, it's getting late now. If you, or anybody else wants more information I'll let you know tomorrow. |
Re: Acron Homes
Originally Posted by stevejones123
(Post 5279020)
Foreigners have always been able to buy freehold in Sri Lanka. No visa is necessary. However in order to stop foreign ownership of agricultural land the government imposed a 100% surcharge on all purchases by foreign nationals, which effectively wipes out any chance of making a profit, or even breaking even on the transaction.
The UNP government abolished this tax at the end of 2002 and so I bought the land to build the house in 2003. There is as much anti-white racist rhetoric amongst certain elements of the Sri Lankan polity as in Goa, and the papers were carrying sob-stories of poor fishermen expelled from their houses in the coast so that foreigners could build luxury houses with swimming pools, and the usual rubbish (the number of foreigners who bought was minuscule and in many cases they were buying houses that belonged to Lankans that had either gone abroad or were living in Colombo and had no use for the house). The killer came in Galle, and you got very much the situation you get in Goa. Galle Fort is a 17th century construction and a world heritage site. Inside the walls of the fort there are around 1600 houses, most in very poor condition. British expats, particularly those working in the financial sector in Hong Kong, noticed this and there was a massive property boom, and westerners bought around 25% of the houses in the Fort, refurbishing them at considerable expense, and often turning them into restaurants, or guest houses. There was the usual rabble rousing from a small number of envious Sinhalese (who also no doubt were hoping to get some easy pickings) who formed an association to defend the Fort, and filled the newspapers with stories of foreigners opening liquor dens and other hubs of vice. As in most cases these were upmarket restaurnants for your blue-rinse retired WI member from Tunbridge Wells to sit in and sip a dry white while waiting for the first course, the accusations were as unfair as they were hilarious but in the end they had effect. The interesting thing is that although Galle Fort is predominantly Moslem, most of the opposition came from Sinhalese chauvinists. In 2004 the President dissolved Parliament and her party, the PA, defeated the outgoing government fighting on a Sinhala nationalist ticket. One of the things it did was to ally itself with a party of extremist Buddhist monks the JHU, and in return for their votes the PA government agreed to reintroduce the 100% surcharge by way of an urgent law. To pass an urgent law the government had to get the permission of the Supreme Court, so there was quite fun when this suddenly happened. The government had decided to get rid of the Company route to buying property (which was one of the two preferred ways to avoid the surcharge; the other being to register in a Sri Lankan's name but have a mortage or loan for more than the value of the house as a guarantee). The problem was that the foreign companies that would be prevented from buying property included the National Telephone Company, the main Mobile phone provider, the National Airline, the Cooking Gas provider, the only company licensed to make wheat flour, the second biggest gas station licensee (the Indian Oil Company) and a slew of others. Accordingly this provision was dropped so that essentially the situation is the same as in 2001, where a foreigner can avoid the payment by forming a company, or use other underhand means). There is also the fact that a foreigner can lease a property on a 99 year lease without paying any surcharge. And of course the surcharge is on the land, so if you buy bare land and then build you will only be paying a small proportion of the value of the house in surcharge. So the situation regarding owning property is much better than India (or indeed Thailand). However the situation with visas is uncertain. You get a 30 day visa free of charge at the airport. You can then extend that visit visa for another two months at a charge of $42 (if British; the cost depends on what your country of origin charges Sri Lankans). Indeed you are supposed to have that option at the airport but nobody offers it. Before you could get a nine month visa at a cost of $150, but the government took that option away when they theoretically allowed three month visas at the airport (the reason being I believe that it was exploited by Pakistanis and Indians who were working illegally). Unlike what some people think you can apply for a second extension without having to leave the country, though obviously whether it is granted or not depends on the particular immigration officer (though I have found them uniformly friendly under both governments). The problem with Sri Lanka is that there is only one way to get into the country; on the other hand there is no sign of them wishing to discourage long-term visitors, and the possibility of nipping over to India for a couple of months is hardly the end of the world, and likely to be the worse scenario. I would not advise you to buy at present. Apart from anything else the country is in the middle of a civil war, and I am expecting the rupee to sink against the dollar in the next few months because the US inflation rate is around 3% and the Lankan around 18%. There is also the question of why would you want to buy property in a place you have never been to, and where you know nobody. It seems like much too much hassle, and even in the best circumstances likely to lead to grief. As you are only 35 years old, my advice is, if you want to try out Lanka, come and stay in a hotel the first couple of times, and then if you think you will be spending a few months here every year, rent out somewhere on a three year lease. There are plenty of houses Lankans living abroad would be prepared to rent out, and if you wanted a house for a shorter period, there is even more choice as there are lots of Lankans living abroad with houses here they would like to rent when they are not in residence. And if you do want to buy somewhere tropical, think of getting a condominium in Thailand. My ex-employer in Saudi, and a very good friend, sold his company and retired to Thailand a couple of years ago. He had spent the last twenty years holidaying in Goa. His comment was that he had wanted to retire for some years but it was only when he experienced Thailand that he decided it was time. Anyway, it's getting late now. If you, or anybody else wants more information I'll let you know tomorrow. Many thanks for taking the time to write such a comprehensive reply, which i really appreciate. Its also very interesting to have a comparison of how the situation in Sri Lanka compares to India, and although as you point out, FNs buying property in Sri Lanka should have a smoother ride than in India/Thailand, nevertheless it still sounds incredibly complex to me! I quite agree it would be crazy if i just decided to move to Sri Lanka without having ever been there! - but when i said i was considering it as a possible plan B, i should have elaborated a bit more, as i really meant i was considering it just in the preliminary research sense, and i totally agree that before deciding to purchase a property in a new country its best to stay in a hotel/lease atleast initially. From the information you've given, it certainly sound far too complicated for me to buy, but as you suggested it may be worth me looking into the possibility of renting there if i eventually give up on India & if after visiting Sri Lanka, decide i'd like to be based there for a while. Anyway thanks again very much for saving me (& quite possibly others) hours of futile research on the subject!:thumbsup: I think i've practically reached the conclusion now that much as i'd like the (theoretical) extra security of owning my own place; in practice (atleast in India & much of Asia it seems), the stress of navigating all the bureacracy, along with the current uncertainty of the global economy etc, makes leasing look like a more pragmatic option (for now atleast in my case). A condo in Thailand sounds very nice, (although i doubt my budget would stretch that far)! Also, apart from the visa/residency issues/language barrier etc, when i looked into it a bit some years ago i got the impression that the Thais only welcome FNs who are relatively weathly retirees, but i may have got the wrong impression/things may have changed since(?) Anyway, in my case although i agree Thailand is a beautiful and exotic place to visit, my spiritual home is India (& i only just recently considered Sri Lanka based on it being geographically close to India and with a bonus that it is a mainly Buddhist nation). I actually feel much more drawn to Nepal, but due to the political troubles and stringent visa rules etc, thats out of the question. Anyway, thanks again very much for your detailed response and i wish you all the very best with your own property venture, and you'll have to let us know how you get on. Kind Regards TDK:) |
Re: Acron Homes
Originally Posted by TDK
(Post 5281089)
Hi Steve,
Many thanks for taking the time to write such a comprehensive reply, which i really appreciate. Its also very interesting to have a comparison of how the situation in Sri Lanka compares to India, and although as you point out, FNs buying property in Sri Lanka should have a smoother ride than in India/Thailand, nevertheless it still sounds incredibly complex to me! I quite agree it would be crazy if i just decided to move to Sri Lanka without having ever been there! - but when i said i was considering it as a possible plan B, i should have elaborated a bit more, as i really meant i was considering it just in the preliminary research sense, and i totally agree that before deciding to purchase a property in a new country its best to stay in a hotel/lease atleast initially. From the information you've given, it certainly sound far too complicated for me to buy, but as you suggested it may be worth me looking into the possibility of renting there if i eventually give up on India & if after visiting Sri Lanka, decide i'd like to be based there for a while. Anyway thanks again very much for saving me (& quite possibly others) hours of futile research on the subject!:thumbsup: I think i've practically reached the conclusion now that much as i'd like the (theoretical) extra security of owning my own place; in practice (atleast in India & much of Asia it seems), the stress of navigating all the bureacracy, along with the current uncertainty of the global economy etc, makes leasing look like a more pragmatic option (for now atleast in my case). A condo in Thailand sounds very nice, (although i doubt my budget would stretch that far)! Also, apart from the visa/residency issues/language barrier etc, when i looked into it a bit some years ago i got the impression that the Thais only welcome FNs who are relatively weathly retirees, but i may have got the wrong impression/things may have changed since(?) Anyway, in my case although i agree Thailand is a beautiful and exotic place to visit, my spiritual home is India (& i only just recently considered Sri Lanka based on it being geographically close to India and with a bonus that it is a mainly Buddhist nation). I actually feel much more drawn to Nepal, but due to the political troubles and stringent visa rules etc, thats out of the question. Anyway, thanks again very much for your detailed response and i wish you all the very best with your own property venture, and you'll have to let us know how you get on. Kind Regards TDK:) just wondering if you have ever considered Bhutan as an alternative to Nepal, though I don't know about if they welcome FNs or not, just an idea regards KKK |
Re: Acron Homes
Originally Posted by KKK
(Post 5285423)
Hi TDK
just wondering if you have ever considered Bhutan as an alternative to Nepal, though I don't know about if they welcome FNs or not, just an idea regards KKK Good to hear from you again and thanks for suggesting the Kingdom of Bhutan. Although i've heard its very beautiful and unspoilt, and ofcourse its also a Buddhist nation, unfortunately for most FNs (but fortunately for them), almost all foreign visitors (except Indians and i think Tibetans, and those with Bhutanese connections/voluntary workers etc) have to pay US$200 p.day to government licensed tour operators (which includes accomodation,meals and travel and entry to places of interest etc). The expensive tariff is used as a way to maxamise foreign revenue whilst limiting the numbers of tourists and their impact on the Bhutanese culture & environment. So i think unless married to a Bhutanese national, or a guest of the government/king etc, i don't think it would be a viable long term option for most FNs, although would be great to visit sometime (but at that price i think i'd only manage a day or 2)! Kind regards TDK |
Re: Acron Homes
Originally Posted by TDK
(Post 5288411)
Hi KKK,
Good to hear from you again and thanks for suggesting the Kingdom of Bhutan. Although i've heard its very beautiful and unspoilt, and ofcourse its also a Buddhist nation, unfortunately for most FNs (but fortunately for them), almost all foreign visitors (except Indians and i think Tibetans, and those with Bhutanese connections/voluntary workers etc) have to pay US$200 p.day to government licensed tour operators (which includes accomodation,meals and travel and entry to places of interest etc). The expensive tariff is used as a way to maxamise foreign revenue whilst limiting the numbers of tourists and their impact on the Bhutanese culture & environment. So i think unless married to a Bhutanese national, or a guest of the government/king etc, i don't think it would be a viable long term option for most FNs, although would be great to visit sometime (but at that price i think i'd only manage a day or 2)! Kind regards TDK thanks for increasing my knowledge about rules regarding the visit of FNs to Bhutan. So clearly you have already "explored" Bhutan and I though I was being original !! regards KKK |
Re: Acron Homes
Originally Posted by KKK
(Post 5288473)
Hi TDK
thanks for increasing my knowledge about rules regarding the visit of FNs to Bhutan. So clearly you have already "explored" Bhutan and I though I was being original !! regards KKK thanks for your reply and i forgot to mention that the staple diet in Bhutan seems to consist mainly of chillies and dried cheese - 2 foods i can't eat! So i think i might be better off leasing in the more cosmopolitan Goa afterall!:lol: Regards TDK |
Re: Acron Homes
Originally Posted by TDK
(Post 5288714)
Hi KKK,
thanks for your reply and i forgot to mention that the staple diet in Bhutan seems to consist mainly of chillies and dried cheese - 2 foods i can't eat! So i think i might be better off leasing in the more cosmopolitan Goa afterall!:lol: Regards TDK Yeah thats one thing about Goa........there is such a wide variety of foods to choose from.......and most of it is so damn yummy. Regards, Remy |
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